Redemption for Jessika (En, Sp, Fr, It, Ge)

[tlaero]

nutzbutz, just to make absolutely sure, you unzipped rfj.zip after you downloaded it, right? If you just double-clicked the file it would have opened up and you would have seen a start.htm. But if you clicked that, it would have behaved the way you're describing. Right click the rfj.zip and say "extract all".

Iksanabot, I hate to throw cold water on you, but I'm far less sexually interesting in real life than my games suggest.

ihutch, thank you. Jtue (end to end) is my favorite scene in any of my games. Especially:

The fact that she has sex with you and then there's a check to see if you're good enough to do the really hard thing. That says so much to me.

Mortze nailed those images.

Moskys, Mortze deserves the credit for "Has anybody seen my baby." That was his suggestion.

Okay, I may talk about Marc next. We'll see how I feel after dinner.

Tlaero

[tlaero]

Moskys, re the "bad guys." I've thought it through. I can't promise that you'll like or even approve of what constrains them, but I will say that it's none of the things you said you don't like. (-:

As for Chloe, all I'll say is that she's very important to the story arc we're doing.

mugen24, no those people did not play a part in DwE.

Tlaero

[tlaero]

I was planning to talk about interactivity first, but since this came up again, let's talk about Marc.
Ares, in particular, thank you for your feedback. I find it very helpful. I hope this doesn't come across as me justifying myself. I'm just trying to explain my thought process here. There's nothing wrong with people's opinions on whether or not Marc is weak. These are just mine.

We have differing opinions on what a woman wants in a man.

Marc is, in my opinion, the most desirable guy I've put in any of my games. I actually reduced the interactivity in the game so that you guys couldn't screw up how awesome he is. (-: He's not an action star, but, frankly, that's not what women ... well, at least me, want in a man. He's so supportive, and understanding, and sensitive... That kind of stuff matters (to me, at least). Jess was going to drink herself to death, and in the course of the game, Marc basically saves her life. As she said, he's her hero. He'd be mine too.

Now, I see some confusion on how the game works, and I understand where it comes from. Frequently in my games, if there are 3 things you can say, then one is worth a point, one is neutral (0 points) and one is negative. You quickly figure out how to "behave," and that's how you have to act. So, yeah, you've played my games before, and you see the self deprecating dialog option, and you assume that's what you have to do.

That's not actually how it works in this game, though. I wanted you to be free to play the character you wanted to (while constraining you to being awesome...). I'm pretty sure you don't ever need to be self deprecating in the game if you don't want to be. I do reward you for being well rounded, but there are enough options that you should be able to do that while avoiding particular personality traits that you don't associate with. Okay, if you want to be kind of a "semi-jerk," it won't work, but there's only so much time to write dialog options.

As for how many concerts Marc has gone to, everyone has a hobby. Some people read books. Some play video games. Some rock climb. Some go to local concerts. Going to concerts is Marc's hobby. And, especially when there's a thriving local rock scene, there are a lot of people who never miss a show their favorite bands put on. I mean, consider the people who followed The Grateful Dead around on tour going to all of their concerts. Marc didn't even need to leave his city to see Mayhem. And, though he's highly attracted to Jess, I tried to make it clear that he enjoys the entire band and their music. Something I can take from this, though, is that I could have done more to show that he also likes other music and goes to other concerts. As I think about how I worded things with Power Girl, I can definitely see why people might interpret things differently than I intended. I'll learn from that.

Question for you folks. Would you consider the POV characters in these games to be stronger if I worked at showing their other interests? (Interests besides the pretty woman.) Is the concern that Marc is weak, or is it really that my characterization of him is? I could certainly put more effort into giving the POVs a more involved backstory. Would people like that more or less? On one hand, knowing more about the character could be interesting, but on the other, it would likely pull you farther away from him. The more you know about him, the less he's like you. I seriously don't know the answer to these questions and would love to hear opinions on them.

Tlaero

[ares]

We have differing opinions on what a woman wants in a man.

And ain't that just beautiful

But more seriously, my opinion on what a woman wants in a man is based on what I want a woman. I kind of assume that it is roughly the same thing. And of course I want a woman that is supportive, understanding and sensitive. But at least for me, that feels like a basic requirement. Everyone wants a person with which you can communicate, that you are able to sit down and talks to, that doesn't try to impose him/herself nor is just a passive pillow. I think though that there should be more than that. In particular, I find attractive the ability to surprise me, or impress me and also a capacity to teach me something. I only say that If I were a woman, I wouldnt find Marc attractive in this sense.

Now, I see some confusion on how the game works, and I understand where it comes from. Frequently in my games, if there are 3 things you can say, then one is worth a point, one is neutral (0 points) and one is negative. You quickly figure out how to "behave," and that's how you have to act. So, yeah, you've played my games before, and you see the self deprecating dialog option, and you assume that's what you have to do.

That's not actually how it works in this game, though...

.

Speaking for myself, I know exactly how the game works. To tell the truth, unfortunately, I cheated like a disgusting pig. I lost on my first playthrough early in the game and from then on I was looking at the source of many pages to see what the best option was and always kept _game.js open. I know. What a way to enjoy the game. But bottom line, I know about all the variables the game has and how it doesn't matter much which one you increase; so that most of the dialogue options are "good". That way, they fundamentally serve the purpose of inmersion, letting you play the character however you want. I think it is a great idea.

My problem is rather, as I mentioned before, when NONE of the options represented something I would say. I can probably be more specific if you want.

Would you consider the POV characters in these games to be stronger if I worked at showing their other interests?

I would say that a stronger backstory would help your PC characters to stand out more. That can be largely orthogonal to this other idea you implemented in the game which as I said, I think is good. You can still have the difference between a funny character, a sexual or a sweet one while having a more developed past. I consider these games works of fiction. I don't expect the character to be exactly like me, specially not in terms of what is his past of what are his goals and interests in life, I only expect to be able to put myself in his place.

[boyo111]

Personally I never saw Marc as weak, I don't know where that comes from, maybe just certain people's viewpoints. I thought there was enough of Marc revealed during the game where you could see what kind of person he was. From the job you got the sense this was a guy who professionally remained invisible, yet he really wasn't. He went out of his way to help Jessica when she really needed it. Within the court he worked he was the only one understanding enough about Sylvia to give her some needed space, and respect; and gets handsomely rewarded for it. Not just rewarded, but to meet a woman of his dreams, which I thought was a nice bonus to the game.

In these POV games you have to put a little bit of yourself into the character, otherwise its hard to play, especially if you play to build yourself up while playing, and making the right choices. You can be a jerk, and get a game over real quick, because you've just locked off any interaction with the characters.

I didn't have a problem with the glasses, and when you do see a picture of Marc later in the game you see a sort of normal guy. The piano scene was good because it not only showed Marc as musically interested, but then you see why he is a fan and not a performer, at least to me, in that he didn't like to play. He gets his fun watching and following other bands, and is into them all enough to remember all the little details. I've done the follow a local band bit before, and its tough to see all their acts, so I give him credit, but when you see talent when its young and watch it bloom it can be exciting. So I got that bit.

Overall I thought Marc was fairly well rounded and detailed, a bit more than Jason IMO.

[LostTrout]

I also had a problem with Marc's character. It felt too much like male fan fiction. He's a guy with no noticeable friends and no sexuality. He's quiet and unnoticed by anyone. Yet he's so "nice" that women find him irresistable. He essentially stalks some poor woman and wins her over by being so "nice." If those are the types of guys that you like, then that's what you like. Those types of guys are usually pretty twisted because he'll believe that if he shows as little sexual interest in women as possible but simply tries to be around a woman as much as possible, then she'll magically discover how sensitive and "nice" he is and want to have sex with him. I'm a guy, and I still found the character so disturbing that I couldn't get very far into the game. Unless he's saving puppies from a fire, just being "nice" is not enough to justify a relationship. There needs to be something more for it to be believable.

[john milton]

In my opinion, there’s a great difference between “identifying with the character” and “having the character to identify with you”.
Your games have quite a deep background, even deeper if we consider the last two.
As was pointed out in the comments before, the focus of these games is not the date/sex aspect, but the way it’s developed within the narration, the personal growth of the characters and the plot itself.

While in a game like Chaotic’s, the PC doesn’t really matter, and that’s coherent since it’s a virtual date, and you have a range of options that let you shape the character you like most.
In games like yours, which are definitely more complex from a psychological point of view, the author obviously needs to write a character that has an identity. And That’s obviously your modus operandi. However, in my opinion, you’re trying to keep both these aspects together, and the result is a half POV.

To make a reference to something we both love, Commander Shepard has a completely different personality from me (both of his personalities, actually), but I could totally identify myself with him. That’s because I could participate to his process. Even if he isn’t similar to me I felt so much in his boots that (in the game) I acted like he would have.

What I want to say is that playing a character who already has a shaped personality makes you think as he does and lets you identify with him/her even if he’s not nearly similar to you.
This was something that did not happen in Dragon Age Origins for example, I loved that game, but the PC didn’t exist almost. And the “character shaping” process is quite similar to yours.

From a player perspective, after I played each one of your games, the PC was the character I remembered less.
Then I would definitely love you to giving the POVs a more involved backstory.

Moreover, there’s a little advice I’d like to give you: I noticed that the PC is a little too quiet. He never feels sadness, anger or wrath. At least he does not seem to.
I think that making him express his feelings could be an amazing way to define the character better and to make him look much more realistic.

Anyway, I hope this might be helpful. Have a good day everyone.
John

[lurking]

Just a random idea about Marc's role: The whole plot might be a subtle advertisement for modern feminism, where guys are essentially willing to be quiet supporters of strong or should-be-strong women. That might explain why the player will fail trying to be a sexist and is doomed to be an understanding nice guy in order to win the game.

Which would, after all, be a good morale: "Wanna fuck?" will not improve your life.

[saintmorin]

WOW !!
Quality FREE game with deep story !! Real good CGI !! Really impress BRAVO !!

[benedict]

Great game! Thank you both Tlaero and Mortze!
Interesting story, love it that we're back in the same world as DwE. I'm very curious how the story will develop and can't help but wonder what'll happen to Chloe now that she's failed 2 times.
Graphics are top notch again. Even if I don't share Mortze's fetish with pubic hair and huge nipples I can't help but admire the gorgeous girls. Nice touch with the new animations btw.
All the girls are beautiful. Each has her own personality. What's more, most of their actions and the motivation behind them are quite believable.
On the other hand, seems to me the males really got the short end of the stick in RfJ. Charles is used as a tool. Gary is a spineless idiot. And our protagonist is the most uninteresting, amorphous, slimy blob of a "Yes man" anyone could imagine. He agrees with everything the girls say, does everything they tell him to do. He lets them do to him whatever they want to, but always asks for permission before doing even the simplest things. He never shows initiative, never tries to push Jessica's boundaries, he's always content to do what he's allowed to do.
I also agree with the other people who don't understand what Jessica finds in him. Given what a hot rocker chick she is she must have a huge line of potential boyfriends waiting and lots of them must have more redeemable features than just being nice.

[TheFerry]

... I like the decision of both of you to include a BBW in the game too. ...

What? There's a BBW in the game? Who are you talking about?

[Skelaturi]

... I like the decision of both of you to include a BBW in the game too. ...

What? There's a BBW in the game? Who are you talking about?

Only i can think about is Gary's wife, cause BBW can also stand for Big Beautiful Woman

[always86]

Question for you folks. Would you consider the POV characters in these games to be stronger if I worked at showing their other interests? (Interests besides the pretty woman.) Is the concern that Marc is weak, or is it really that my characterization of him is? I could certainly put more effort into giving the POVs a more involved backstory. Would people like that more or less? On one hand, knowing more about the character could be interesting, but on the other, it would likely pull you farther away from him. The more you know about him, the less he's like you. I seriously don't know the answer to these questions and would love to hear opinions on them.

Tlaero

I don't think other interests would necessarily improve the PoV character. For me there are a couple of things i might put on the table. One is a sense of a bit more time passing. The lead seems to drop his life for the girl. Might seem romantic, for me it feels a little as though he didn't have a life /friends before he met the Main lady. Background friendship would be a nice touch to help this as well. For example, she asks if he wants to hang out he responds 'actually i'm seeing my buddies you can come or I can ditch them?' She tells him to hang with his friends but she wants to see him tomorrow or the next day etc. I think it helps both characters to feel less clingy/dependent. You did something similar with Marc suggestion for Jess to hang with Sarah.

I hope that sounds constructive.

[Dolphin-BR]

There's nothing wrong with people's opinions on whether or not Marc is weak.

He seems weak to me. His behavior towards the band leader looks a lot more like a girl's behavior than a man's behavior. Let me explain:
USUALLY when a girl likes a band or a singer, it is like she falls in love with the singer or a member of the band. She would die to have sex with her idol. That's NOT how it works for men. USUALLY when a man likes a band or a singer, he likes their music. He's not in love with any of them. He may even feel them a real turn off.
I didn't consider Marc sexual attraction for Jessika unrealistic because she had great looks, so he would feel sexually attracted to her either she was in the band or not. But he was always feeling like he hit the jackpot for being with her who was so out of his league...kinda of weak for a man. Not a big deal thou.

As for how many concerts Marc has gone to, everyone has a hobby. Some people read books. Some play video games. Some rock climb. Some go to local concerts. Going to concerts is Marc's hobby.

It's not a big deal either for me. Most people have some "oddities" so I don't mind if a character does something a little out of the so called normal behavior. Marc's is not a big oddity at all.

Question for you folks. Would you consider the POV characters in these games to be stronger if I worked at showing their other interests? (Interests besides the pretty woman.) Is the concern that Marc is weak, or is it really that my characterization of him is? I could certainly put more effort into giving the POVs a more involved backstory. Would people like that more or less? On one hand, knowing more about the character could be interesting, but on the other, it would likely pull you farther away from him. The more you know about him, the less he's like you. I seriously don't know the answer to these questions and would love to hear opinions on them.

I like to play a character in a way it makes myself feel good. So if I'm "forced" by the game to rape or have sex with a character I don't feel appealing it can kill the game for me. That's why I like a lot of options.
I don't have a problem in playing a role, a character with a backstory. But the more detailed this backstory is the more likely it is to conflict with my tastes. So I prefer when the game gives me just a draft of the main character's history.

[nazim10]

Just finished the game, a really good experience imo. I liked Marc (well, we do have a lot of things in common), and the story was quite beautiful, even heartwarming at some points:

The face Sarah made while seeing Jessica playing music again, the emotion was so powerful