6 steps to a date - datinggame by Josefus

[TheBrain]

There is a big difference between major second language and mother tongue...

Perhaps we shoud start a poll and see how many native speaker we have here...

Why is it so important that someone has English as a native language? All that matters is the level at which someone is able to communicate without too much obvious errors. I know plenty of people who have English as a second language and are able to write better English than the average native English speaker (and to be honest I consider myself one of them). Now granted, I work in the academic world where English is ubiquitous, but it serves as an example where "native" really doesn't mean much.

As for this game and Josefus' past games, it's clear he uses Google translate (with no corrections?). Personally, it bothers me enough to not play his games, since most of it is unintelligible (my high school German gets me further with just the German text, but I don't like reading German, sorry..). In that regard, I think there's a big difference between "Googlish" and English written by someone who simply doesn't master the language (but at least tries to).

In the end it wouldn't be a problem if Josefus wouldn't (partly) target his games at an English audience. But it's clear he does, and then the translations provided by Google translate are simply not good enough. People would be much more receptive if they actually understood the story (and they might even say "thank you", as Josefus clearly implied he wants people to do).

[Greebo]

That's a lot you've missed out between "I'm afraid I must express disagreement with this statement" and "Of the rest many have English as a major second language", Morgwen! I could accuse you of deliberate distortion of my intent to suit your own agenda! My main point was that the bulk of lagoon dwellers are probably more able to understand simple English than any other language, although I realise this could hurt some folk's national pride.

I also realise that English comes in different flavours -- it has been said with a degree of truth that the US and the UK are two countries separated by a common language, but to some extent that is also true of Germans. I've witnessed "hoch Deutsch" speakers from North Germany having difficulty understanding the dialects of Bavaria and Austria -- personally, I'm more at home with Austrian and Bavarian, but that also applies to English, I've had better luck understanding the employees of a call centre in Sofia in Bulgaria than those of a call centre in Dundee in Scotland. Americans might like to compare Boston with Baton Rouge or the Bronx, and I'm sure the French could find similar area variations, but I'm not so familiar with France.

[kessie8yl]

There is a big difference between major second language and mother tongue...

Perhaps we shoud start a poll and see how many native speaker we have here...

Why is it so important that someone has English as a native language? All that matters is the level at which someone is able to communicate without too much obvious errors. I know plenty of people who have English as a second language and are able to write better English than the average native English speaker (and to be honest I consider myself one of them). Now granted, I work in the academic world where English is ubiquitous, but it serves as an example where "native" really doesn't mean much.

As for this game and Josefus' past games, it's clear he uses Google translate (with no corrections?). Personally, it bothers me enough to not play his games, since most of it is unintelligible (my high school German gets me further with just the German text, but I don't like reading German, sorry..). In that regard, I think there's a big difference between "Googlish" and English written by someone who simply doesn't master the language (but at least tries to).

In the end it wouldn't be a problem if Josefus wouldn't (partly) target his games at an English audience. But it's clear he does, and then the translations provided by Google translate are simply not good enough. People would be much more receptive if they actually understood the story (and they might even say "thank you", as Josefus clearly implied he wants people to do).

For what it's worth you gave yourself away as a non-native English speaker before reaching the end of the second sentence... An English speaker would say "without too many". However I am more interested in what you say in the second paragraph, "it bothers me enough to not play his games, since most of it is unintelligible", which is the very point I was trying to make to Josefus from the beginning. If his games were to be translated into understandable English more people would be playing them.

I also do wish people would read the thread properly and stop trying to turn this into an opportunity to knock the English, with the references to "crying" and so on - I don't believe anyone has ever suggested that games should only be in English, that just happens to be the only other language Josefus has attempted to use in his games. I am sure if he attempted using a similar standard of French there would be cries of "sacre bleu!" ringing around the lagoon.

I believe Greebo's point was that it would not be unreasonable to think that native English speakers like Greebo and myself would be better equipped to make some sense of the garbled mumbo-jumbo Josefus calls a translation, but the fact is we can't - and if we can't what chance is there for someone who relies on English as their second language? That group would probably cover most of the lagoon who are not native English speakers. I don't see anything contentious in that.

You don't tell us your own mother tongue although I'd take a guess on French but whatever it is, you have made it clear that if you can't have your own language, you'd rather have it in English than German. I happen to believe you'd be far from alone in taking that view.

In any case Josefus could probably find a willing volunteer to translate the games into French as well without even having to leave the lagoon. Given his oft-stated admiration for Shark I don't see any reason for him not to follow Shark's example. The skills are obviously out there, as evidenced by the credits in the title pages of Shark's games.

The object at the beginning of this thread was for Josefus' games to reach the widest possible audience, so we can all have a chance to say "Thanks".

[TheBrain]

For what it's worth you gave yourself away as a non-native English speaker before reaching the end of the second sentence... An English speaker would say "without too many".

Of course I never claimed my English was perfect (and it's not a construct you encounter often while writing academic papers ), although it's quite ironic to make a mistake right there . However, my point was that native English speakers make mistakes like that too, in my experience more often than I do (although I might just be missing my own mistakes.. :P).

I believe Greebo's point was that it would not be unreasonable to think that native English speakers like Greebo and myself would be better equipped to make some sense of the garbled mumbo-jumbo Josefus calls a translation, but the fact is we can't - and if we can't what chance is there for someone who relies on English as their second language? That group would probably cover most of the lagoon who are not native English speakers. I don't see anything contentious in that.

Actually, I think those who know both English and a Germanic language (or indeed, a little bit of German) have the best chance of understanding. In fact I was being a bit over-dramatic by calling it unintelligible, I can make sense out of most of it if I try. But it takes a lot of effort, which I really don't like while playing a game. And on top of that, seeing English of that quality just straight up annoys me. And that just comes back to Google Translate not being good enough, not in any language I'm aware of.

You don't tell us your own mother tongue although I'd take a guess on French but whatever it is, you have made it clear that if you can't have your own language, you'd rather have it in English than German. I happen to believe you'd be far from alone in taking that view.

Dutch, actually :P

[katakana132]

To sum it up, most visitors here are more likely to try a game that they can understand. If the translation is so bad that we cannot pay it, we may ask for better translation. Not everyone speaks the same language or more tan one language, this shouldn't offend anyone. We all come on these boards to play games, if a game appears to be made in the language we are comfortable with, we are likely to play it.

In this case, the game and forum posts about the game are in (poor) English, so English speaking visitors asked for better translation. If the game creator chooses to do so, great . If they do not, we will move on to a different game.

[Josefus]

Hallo TheBrain , Greebo, kessie8yl and katakana132

Danke für Eure Kommentare. Sie geben mir wirklich viel. Jaa.. sie zeigen mir auch wo mein Problem ist.

Ich sage es immer wieder. Die Sprache ist mein Hinderniss. Ich sage auch. Jeder kann das Spiel übersetzen wenn er mag. Ich habe damit kein Problem.
Ich sehe doch, ob ein Spiel ankommt oder nicht. Wenn 50 Tage lang kein Download (zB. bei Rapidshare) kommt... löschen die meisten Hoster den Link!
Das ist auch ok. Ich kann damit leben.

@kessie8yl ...
Entschuldige bitte, wenn es zwischen uns kleine Missverständnisse gabe. Ich wollte nie unhöflich sein oder Dich beleidigen. Ich lese Deine Kommentare gerne. Ich kann auch mit Kritik umgehen...

Die Kommentare dürfen auch ruhig in deutsch sein.

Hier gibt es Spiele, die sind seit ewigen Zeiten nie fertig geworden. Da werden seitenweise Kommentare zu technischen Problemen ...zu Bugs abgegeben.

Inhaltlich kommen hier die wenigsten Kommentare. Also...hau weiter rein.

Ich schrieb, dass dieses Spiel durch Grounddog inspiriert ist. ---> Dann versteht mann die Sprünge im Game.

Die Leute, die mir erzählen, meine Spiele hätten keine Qualität...( dasss lasse ich nur hinsichtlich der Sprache gelten.) die ignoriere ich. Auch ich bemühe mich ein gutes Spiel zu schreiben. Ok... technische Probleme. gibt es immer. Hatte ich bei Lura ganz besonders.
Ich betrachte meinen Versuch Spiele in Html-2 mit Sprechblasen zu schreiben als gescheitert!

Ich werde zukünftig auch keine Google-Übersetzungen mehr machen. Das führt nur zu noch größeren Problemen.
Ich weiss, dass selbst die Übersetzung viel, vile Arbeit bedeutet. Ich bedanke mich immer wieder bei den Usern, die sich die Mühe machen die Spiele zu übersetzen. Fordern kann ich es nicht. Und einen Ausweg aus diesem Dilema habe ich auch nicht.
Schlussfolgerung: Zukünftige Spiele sind wieder in deutscher Sprache.!

[andPS2]

hallo josefus,
kannst du das jetzige spiel komplett in deutsch anbieten?
zuerst ist alles deutsch aber dann wechselt es zu englisch bei den quests
gruesse

[kessie8yl]

A little off-topic but I almost spilled my coffee when I saw this on the BBC News website today:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22607506

I am sorry you have decided not to take advantage of the lagoon's resources to translate your games but that's your decision.

Just in case we're misunderstanding you - When you say that "anyone can translate them" I can assure you this is not the case. Do you mean you would accept a translation from someone in the lagoon and release a version of the game in that language? They may need to come back to you to clear up some of the German slang. It may benefit anyone in the lagoon who is thinking about providing a translation if you could clear that up.

Once more, this time in Googlish:

Ein wenig off-topic, aber ich fast meinen Kaffee verschüttet, als ich das sah auf der BBC News Website heute:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22607506

Es tut mir leid Sie sich entschieden haben, nicht zu nutzen der Lagune Ressourcen zu nehmen, um Ihre Spiele zu übersetzen, aber das ist Ihre Entscheidung.

Nur für den Fall wir missverstehen Sie - wenn Sie sagen, "jeder kann sie übersetzen:" Ich kann Ihnen versichern, das ist nicht der Fall. Meinst du du eine Übersetzung von jemandem in der Lagune zu akzeptieren und eine Version des Spiels in dieser Sprache? Möglicherweise müssen sie kommen zurück, um Sie zu klären einige der deutschen Umgangssprache. Es kann jeder profitieren in der Lagune, die über eine Übersetzung, wenn Sie diese bis konnte klar denken ist.

I don't know how that reads in German but I used Google to translate it back into English and found some fundamental errors. For one thing it didn't even attempt to translate the word "release", it just left it out altogether so the sentence no longer makes sense.

[Morgwen]

Why is it so important that someone has English as a native language?

Very easy. Its "usually" easier for the majority to write and read in their mother tongue than in any other language. And yes there are people who are able to communicate in more languages than just their mother tongue... I am the best example. My mother tongue is Croatian but my best language is German because I was born here, English is only my third language...

That's a lot you've missed out between "I'm afraid I must express disagreement with this statement" and "Of the rest many have English as a major second language", Morgwen! I could accuse you of deliberate distortion of my intent to suit your own agenda!

I read the whole post really...

My point was that I know many people who have Emglish as their major/only second language and aren't able to order a beer in a pub...

And yes I also think that Josefus should seek for help for a good translation. Many developers do the same... I don´t know why Josefus is so stubborn...

I don't know how that reads in German

Sounds like my Chinese after 20 beer... and no I never learnt Chinese ^^

The main problem is the grammer, the German grammer is very different from the English grammer, the translator can translate the words but not the sense... thats a reason why I never use them.

[jfrancois323]

English is more easier to gather a lot of attention since most of lagoon member speak English, else they will not be able to read what is post. Im no exception my first language is French Canadian, second is English (don't ask me to speak, i sound like Chinese )

We get the same problem with serge games they are in french, french language is more complex than English and sometime translating sound weird !

the easier solution should be to ask someone else to do the other language, someone fluent in the two language !! If shark is able to place his games in German, im sure he can suggest you someone !

Josfus, you should at least get one more reader (me) because your story look nice, but every time i try to install the English language i miss something & it doesn't work !!

I can at least said that your pictures are nicely done, they deserve this little attention to be sure that more people see them !!

[shark]

Personally, I would like to thank the members of the lagoon team who translated my games (it is a biiiiig work!), all those who propose to try translation in new languages... and also Luke that corrects my French texts that are often full of spelling mistakes ... I think that present his work to many people should be the goal of all creators.

[Josefus]

Thank you for your comments.

I'm not stubborn!
I'll say it again. Everyone is allowed to translate the games. I would be really happy about it.

[Morgwen]

Thank you for your comments.
I'll say it again. Everyone is allowed to translate the games. I would be really happy about it.

Its the first time I read this statement... ok maybe I missed it... and I am to lazy to search for it... ^^

But it would be easier if you would asked for help and choose someone... it doesn`t make sense if 2 or more people start to tarnslate the game and waste their time. So asked and pick ONE and all will be good.

[kessie8yl]

Thank you for your comments.

I'm not stubborn!
I'll say it again. Everyone is allowed to translate the games. I would be really happy about it.

Well you seem to be stubbornly refusing to answer my question

If someone sent you a translation would you incorporate it into the game so those of us who don't speak German could enjoy it more?

[phantomshark]

Thank you for your comments.

I'm not stubborn!
I'll say it again. Everyone is allowed to translate the games. I would be really happy about it.

Well you seem to be stubbornly refusing to answer my question

If someone sent you a translation would you incorporate it into the game so those of us who don't speak German could enjoy it more?

In the best way he can, I think he has said several times that he would.