tlaero wrote:TheGreatJoeGargery wrote:I just think there is currently an attitude in this genre that games that have elaborate stories are somehow automatically superior to games that don't and lately everyone seems to be cramming short novels into their games to be part of the superior story driven game developer upper crust.
I don't think this is true at all. I'd say "erotic games with a non-trivial story" are a tiny niche. The vast majority of games in this genre are variations on strip poker (strip tetris, strip memory, strip solitaire, strip pong, etc). Full agency, no story. Even among the erotic games that have a story, there are probably 10 "MeetNFuck" games for every "Redemption for Jessika." People who want nudity unencumbered by story complexity are extremely well covered here. Browse through the games on PlayForceOne, and you'll find a ton of ones that meet your desires. That said, for whatever reason, the people who play and rate the games there seem to rate games with a story higher than the non-story ones you like. That doesn't mean you're wrong, though. It just means THAT audience prefers something different than you do.
As for what game designers do, we write games that are the style that we want to play. I write story based games because that's what I enjoy. I know of people who write similarly styled games because they enjoyed mine, just as I was originally inspired by Ariane. But, as I said, I don't see "games with a short novel crammed into them" pushing aside everything else in the genre. There's too much variety for that to happen.
I encourage you to write a game the way you like it. You'll find your niche and fans just as I've found mine, and that's cool. There are billions of people on the planet. Even the smallest niche can appeal to a lot of people. Come down to the Projects boards and ask any questions you'd like about how to do it. We'll be happy to help you. We'd also want to get into a discussion there about
why agency is so hard to create in these games. That kind of technical discussion is probably more appropriate there than here.
Tlaero
I don't recall ever saying that what I was looking for was more nudity and sex in games yet everyone seems to think that is what I mean by story not being absolutely important. What I do look for is player agency, which is what can I do in the game. I'm also not saying writing is not important. Writing is very important. In fact bad writing is a definite deal breaker for me. That writing may not have to be for a story though. A well written character could be enough to center a game around without any story (again, like in Date Ariane). I feel that if story impedes that then I think that is a bad thing. What I think people are having difficulty separating erotic games from visual (movie) porn. If you tell me what is wrong with visual porn today I would say it is a lack of story. But as I mentioned before, video games are interactive. They tell a story by having players do stuff and go through an experience. I want to be able to interact with the experience as much as possible. I don't know what in my posts would lead you to believe that strip pong would be to my taste.
Actually, I take that back. Could you tell me where I could play strip pong please. I am just insanely curious to see it now...
Quite honestly Brad's Erotic Week is almost a perfect example of what I'm talking about. It does have a story but the story is from the point of view of the player. I'm not being dragged through someone else's story. It is broken down into several smaller stories which can branch out which means I have a significant amount of choice in how the story unfolds. Of course I don't expect everyone to make a story on that scale since I don't want to wait 10 years to play a game, but Brad's Erotic Week shrunk down to a smaller scale would be a nice trend I'd like to see. It has a story but the story is in service to the game, the game is not in service to the story. The story also elevates the game, it doesn't impede it. I still feel I'm playing the game and not just watching the game. So you have Brad's Erotic Week on one end of the spectrum and Date Ariane on the other end of the spectrum. I love both games for the same reasons. One has a lot of story and the other has barely any.
In regards to the list on Playforceone, I'm just going to say that popularity and quality don't necessarily correlate. Michael Bay movies tend to preform well at the box office but I would have a very hard time justifying the latest Transformers movie as being very good. That's about as far into that conversation as I am willing to get. However I do have to say that I enjoy many of the games on the top 10 list at playforceone.
I also have to say that I do have an immense amount of respect for game developers. I understand it is a lot of work and requires you to pour a lot of your emotional resources into producing something you want to be proud of. I give my opinions because I hope to share new ideas, even unpopular ones, in the hope that the collaboration eventually results in better games for everyone. You have every right to think I'm wrong and ignore everything I say. You may think I'm 99.9% wrong, but even if you get that 0.1% out of it then it's worth it. I don't think any artist aspires to stagnate. If you put that much energy into creating something, I feel that you want to constantly be improving and make your newer creations better than the last.
I do have one question for you though. At the end of your post you encouraged me to make my own games. My question to you is do you think my opinion is less valuable as I have not made my own games? I enjoy playing games, and I often use the term "as a player" or "from a player's perspective" when I write posts. Is that something you outright disregard or do you consider that to be valuable feedback and use that as influence when creating future games?