Discussion about the organisation of the forum

[Craban]

OK, it looks like nobody got the implied question in my previous post: What can be extracted from this forum? Is there a possibility to get a database dump or a readable backup file?

[qbv8]

Hi Craban
You seem to be skilled in databases. If there is no other way to get a proper database dump from the database of this forum, I could possibly write a couple of scrïpts that automatically follow all the links and extract all of the posts from this forum. Then parse these posts to restore and convert BB formatting options and extract user names and dates of the post. One of the problems would be links to other places within this forum. Not sure at the moment on how to proceed with these.

What format would you need to import the user names and the messages into a phpBB database? (Is it mysql?)

What I think we should transfer from this forum to a new one is
[*]1. The title of the threads
[*]2. The posts within the individual threads --- I don't know if Shark wants to make a selection on these before transferring them to a new forum.
[*]3. The user names.
Regarding the transfer of users, I see three main issues here.
[*]Many users did not log in to this forum for more than two years. So the question is: do we want to transfer all the dead bodies as well? A practical solution could be to only transfer users that have posted at least one post into this forum and let the others create new accounts in the new forum. This is something Shark has to decide.
[*]Profile of the users, inkl. avatar, etc. My suggestion is to let the users update (= fill in) their profile once they log into the new forum, and I would only transfer the user names so far.
[*]The biggest issue to solve with the user names is how to make sure that the users get their old user IDs in the new forum, given the fact that we can not transfer the passwords from one database into the other? I could imagine a solution using machine generated unique passwords for the initial login and sending PMs in this forum to each individual user. When a user wants to log into the new forum using his old ID, he first has to log into this forum (using his old ID) and read his PM which contains the initial password for the new forum. Then he can log into the new forum and update his password and his profile. This procedure should be safe enough for a forum, as we do not need the security of bank accounts here.

Any opinions on that?

Regards,
qbv8

[Craban]

Well, a brute force method to read all the forums should really be the last resort I think.
I'd start with what aceboard offers - there should be some export or backup, no?

[qbv8]

Right, no doubt, that would be the best and correct solution. It depends on the aceboard team and this is beyond our influence.

Just to summarize it: we have a plan A (database dump) and a plan B (the hard way) how to transfer the data.

Now what are the work packages to complete?
[*]Set up a phpBB system
[*]Implement the new forum, including concept, structure, design elements
[*]Choose a provider
[*]Transfer test data
[*]Test the forum
[*]Transfer the old forum and test the result
[*]Put the old forum on hold, transfer the updates and enable the new forum
[*]Let it run, take care of it and possible fix last bugs.

Anything else?

[Craban]

It does not look like aceboard offers much to get all the threads and posts. Then the question is how you can read all posts and make sure you don't miss one?
There is a bug that some posts seem to disappear so simulating a reader programmatic would not get all posts. I cannot get the search function to retrieve all posts of a forum either.
Once we had all the links to all the posts we could read them and transform into something another forum software can read.

[qbv8]

Yes, this software is really a crap. Hopefully some other lagooners could think about this problem as well so that we might come up with a joint reliable solution. Anyways, I will do some research on this "disappearing threads" topic to see where these threads disappear and what can be done about it.

Shark, what is your opinion on this problem space? Is it worth preparing a migration plan, or do we waste our time?

[shark]

frankly, I would like to be able to organize a migration… but I do not know how to deal with the problem. Aceboard will not make it possible to recover datas and I think we will have to begin a new forum…
difficult decision.

[qbv8]

I see, and I understand that with the help of some of us lagooners, you would take into consideration to (let us) set up a new forum, (let us) transfer the content of this forum to the new one as far as technically possible, and then drop this forum.

I say "as far as possible", because not everything might be transferred e.g., for the moment I do not see any possibility to transfer the PMs to a new forum without having a proper database dump, and if this "disappearing posts" error proves to be severe, also not all of the posts might be found (retrouvées) in the depths of the lagoon. But maybe, transferring PMs is not so critical, and posts that have disappeared today in this forum do not make the new forum worse than this one is . We will have to make a complete list of everything we want to transfer, and then test the transferrability of each item on the list, so that we come up with a complete documentation of what is technically transferrable.

And as (I think) luke pointed out some time ago: when the new forum is operational, the old forum can be closed for new contributions, but left alive in "read only" mode for some time until the transit is clearly complete and stable.

If you want us to "get to business" with this work, it needs a clear commitment from your side, an official "Let's go!" so that we can set up the project, divide the work and start with the migration.

It would also need some work from your side, especially for you I see here
[*]Overall project governance = you are the boss, and you have the last word for every major decision, especially strategic, legal and economic decisions.
[*]Design and concept of the new Forum = at least regarding my own design capabilities, nobody really wants to have a "designed by qbv8" forum, believe me And for the overall concept I think that we can work this out together with a team of knowledgeable lagooners.
[*]Legal issues = This comprises the "behavioral rules" of the forum as well as possible copyright issues regarding design elements like smileys, graphics, etc. But this should be not a big problem for you, as you have already solved this in the past.
[*]Marketing issues = everything concerning advertisements in this forum including contracts, etc. Here the same is true as before: you have already gone through this so that it should as well not be such a big problem.
[*]Strategic decisions = This concerns e.g. the decision whether we want to start this migration project, it requires choosing the provider, and deciding on the base system we use for the new forum (e.g. phpBB or something else). For both questions we can do the preparatory work, compile the necessary information and provide you with a suggestion agreed upon within the technical crew, such that you are then able to make your decision.
[*]Financials = This of course is closely related to the advertisements and to the contracts with the server provider, and that is clearly your matter.

So far my point of view.

Oh yes, and in case I did not make it clear before: I am volunteering to help.

Best regards,
qbv8

[luke]

Did aceboard provide you, as admin, a ftp access ?
If yes, can you give the ftp address, the user and password to people who are interesting by working on a migration ?
I think it could be a good start for examining if it's possible or not

[Squeeky]

shark wrote : frankly, I would like to be able to organize a migration… but I do not know how to deal with the problem. Aceboard will not make it possible to recover datas and I think we will have to begin a new forum…
difficult decision.

I can only offer my goodwill that such a migration would occur. My IT skills are limited. It seems that qbv8 has a very good understanding of the situation in his comment about 2 above this.

Luke's ftp mention is probably crucial. I'd have a trust consideration however in assigning such a task. As admin you have sole privileges, can you (if as Luke is supposing) allow lesser privileges to moderators (whoever) to perform the migration without compromising The Lagoon as it stands?

Another thought occurs to me.

I've variously seen providers offering a migration service of one's site from one domain to another. Is it possible to migrate the Forum via such a procedure or does it need the software which gives it the structure? I think I'm asking, "Is the data layout dependent upon the server's software, and would the new host need to be provided with something compatible?"

I think that I have answered my own question in that within one's site the format is locked and is thus transportable but the Forum is very much like a massive preset Form. Is that correct?

[cruiser]

[Newdood]

(Just LIKE that little clip)

Now that at least the first wave of excitement over Desire and Submision has crested, I've been going through some of the older threads to get an idea of what ELSE has been going on recently.

I'm HOPING that it's significant that nothing has happened in this thread for a couple of months, but I'm AFRAID that just means other things, like developing D&S, have been taking precedence.

Is the loss of the lagoon still hangin' over our collective heads, or has Aceboard come to its senses and/or been bought out by somebody that'll support the software?

[Newdood]

Seems to be a good place to voice concerns/suggestions about Aceboard and/or the forum setup.

I've just been through my first new game release as a member. I've been tryin' to help deal with the onslaught of postings dealing with D&S and ran into a couple of situations that I wish I could've done more with.

It's now day seven of the release and the thread has grown to 20 pages long. SOMEWHERE in there, it has become (in my humble opinion) a little unreasonable to keep telling newbies to go back and "READ THE THREAD 'cause that hint was just given yesterday", or even "...two pages back"

In addition, it starts getting tough to think of new and clever ways to give the same gentle hints over and over.

I'd like to suggest that, for each new game in the future (MANY, MANY more to come, I hope ) we set up a list of ready answers that can be edited as required and spat out relatively quickly to answer the more common questions.

Ideally, this list of ready answers SHOULDN'T be accessible to mere mortals, but it wouldn't help much if it was only accessible to the BIG honchos - the moderators have ENOUGH to do and HOPEFULLY Shark's workin on the NEXT GAME!

I'm not sure what Aceboard's system allows, but maybe we could set up access based on member rankings and/or codes from completion of games (or game SEGMENTS?) so that, for example, you can start givin' out the pre-written clues for episode #1 if you're a star of the reef and have completed that episode.

As an alternative, I wonder if it might possible to do the help/clues access based on the PLAYER'S current location in the game and just automate the responses. I don't know how much of a hassle it'd be to program it into the game, but maybe put a clock on the side of - or, if it logically fits, inside - the scene. When somebody needs help, they enter the time from that clock and get an appropriate hint.

[Newdood]

On a related but separate question, I (and 60nowise and LRM) just had an occasion to deal with a coupla miscreants. One was a pilot fish with 4 posts, so it was an understandable error, but the other was a great white shark with 60 postings - HE shoulda KNOWN better!!

Anyway, they had both given [no]big[/no] HUGE spoiler hints in the main thread. Of course, none of us could actually DO anything about it except to excoriate the blighters and request that they remove their own blunders. One of 'em (the pilot fish) got the hint and cleaned up his posting, but the other one either hasn't noticed the new postings (AND P/M) or has refused to do anything about it.

Of course, I punched the "warn moderators" button AND sent Luke (wish it were possible to cc. Arnulf!)a P/M notifying him of the situation, but as of right now - four(?) hours later - there's a big spoiler hint sittin' in the thread.

PLEASE NOTE!! This is NOT intended as a complaint about the moderators. As far as I'm concerned, those guys deserve PAYCHECKS far more than they deserve hassles from mere mortals like myself! I understand that Luke and Arnulf both have REAL LIVES that must be attended to occasionally and they ARE NOT required to sit at their keyboards all day every day dealing with these problems.

Again, it comes down to a question of what can be done in Aceboard's system, but if it's POSSIBLE, I'd like to suggest a graduated system of moderator clearance based on rankings in the forum. I'd LOVE to see a system in place where us mere mortals could deal with the smaller issues and leave the moderators to handle the tougher stuff.

As a place to start, would it be possible to allow any member to "send to purgatory" an inappropriate posting by an author, say, two levels down in ranking?

Under ideal circumstances, messages could be "restored" from purgatory by a moderator, or maybe by another forum member who outranks whoever sent the posting there.

If nothing else, such a system could make life a lot easier for the moderators - when they log in, all they have to do is check what's been sent to (somebody help me with a better word here - Catholicism NEVER seems to wear off!).

For those posts that were correctly sent away, all he'd have to do is delete 'em. For those that were INCORRECTLY sent away, he could restore 'em.

At some point, it'll start to be appropriate to keep track of who's improperly sending posts away AND who's posts are getting CORRECTLY sent away. Maybe the moderators could be instilled with the power to "bust" a repeat offender in either category to a lower rank.

Just Ramblin'

[Newdood]

Well, just one more little issue about Aceboard - the SEARCH function is DEPRESSINGLY WEAK.

I just had the opportunity for a GREAT JOKE in the Desire and Submission main thread. He was looking for a hint about how to use the TEA to calm Alancy's jealousy (maybe's he's BRITISH?)

The answer to his problem was, of course, not in the teapot!
What was really needed was some GOOD HOT (semi-)LESBIAN SEX!

It took me 20 minutes of searching to find a posting - ANY posting - by erana so I could refer this guy to her avatar. (see page 2 of http://sharks-lagoon.aceboard.fr/forum2 ... gin=215394 if you're not familiar with it)


OK, maybe the joke wasn't REALLY all that funny, but it sure would have been easier if the SEARCH function was worthy of the name! It would've helped if ANY of the following options was available:
- Open the profile of a known user (WITHOUT being at a post
by that user)
- Search for POSTINGS by a given user (as far as I can
tell, the search funtion can only find TOPICS by a given
user)
- Search for a topic by a given user WITHOUT knowing the
TITLE of the topic (I knew she had a lot of postings -
there MIGHT'VE been a topic out there somewhere)

As a bit of a side issue that's tangentially related -

Every once in a while, when I've run across a posting by some user I'm not familiar with, I've become curious WHAT ELSE that user might have contributed. I know that the user's profile can be used to check the DATE of the last posting and of the last topic that the user has created, but as far as I can tell, there's no way to find WHERE TO LOOK for that last posting/topic. It seems to me that there should be a link there on the profile page so that you can just click on that date and be linked to the referenced last post.

Just some more ramblin'
newdood