Children should know ....

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Children should know ....

Postby Squeeky » Mon, 12Apr02 14:25

She came asking for help.

She thought I knew her address, to write on a letter.
Well, Grandads are infallable, yes?

I've never been to her 'hometown'. I knew it by name and basically where her home was from her school.

My 7 yo did not know her street name and had no idea of an emergency phone!

We called Mr Google Earth. For a young mind I expected this to be a challenge, and to a point it was. The locality was fine from the satellite view but it didn't seem right even though I insisted. Suddenly a street number came to her mind.

We enter ground level and ..... "Oh! No, go down further ... more ... yeah! That's our house!" Hadn't gotten there but the viewport was accurate in her mind.

Ah! Her house, we tested the address, Bingo!

Fine, but I was not off the hook. we had to find two other residences. We got one but failed at ground. The other was my home. Google has sent a vehicle passed my place quite recently as some local images are not the same, er, parked truck and a small plan of some height!

On the morrow, a certain epistle will be sent appropriately.

This brings to question:
At what age and what data should your grand/children need to know? They are in an emergency with family or amongst strangers. Both scenarios pose different requirements!

Please feel comfortable in sharing thoughts without divulging.
(If you missed, my kids' parents are not together)
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Re: Children should know ....

Postby fleet » Mon, 12Apr02 18:30

When a child starts kindergarten, she/he should be taught his/her address and phone number. The child should also be taught an 'parent-confirmation' word. By that I mean if someone contacts the child and says 'your mommy/daddy needs you to come with me' the child should ask for the confirmation word to assure that the parent REALLY sent the message.
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Re: Children should know ....

Postby Loup Garou » Mon, 12Apr02 21:00

There are also cell phones that are limited to dialing 2 or 3 numbers. Home (or parent's cell #). And 911. Teaching your child the importance of those 2 numbers is vital. If a stranger approaches them and does not know the code word discussed by fleet, and hit the parental button. If no one answers in first 4 rings (and it goes to answering machine), they then hit the second button and contact the emergency people. Or, if they feel threatened from the start, go straight for the second button.

I would also teach them about "getting a really good look at the guy who didn't know the code word." If he vanishes the moment the phone comes out and the button is hit, after contacting parents, call 911, too. And when you talk to the police, remember the man's face. Not how much he looks like Uncle Phil. But the face of the person you see. Because if you can remember that face, and tell the police what he looks like, and help the artist make a good drawing, odds go up that they can find this person and keep him from trying to take other children.

Of course, as I type this, I think, hmmmmmmmmmmmm is there a way to rig one of those emergency phones I mentioned above to not just dial when the first button is hit, but to take a picture. If that was so, I would teach the child to point the phone at the man's face when he hits 1. If that isn't an option... dammit... it should be.
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Re: Children should know ....

Postby petuchi13 » Tue, 12Apr03 08:58

It's difficult for me to say when a child should know what information. I work in a hospital ER where some kids know none of their personal data and some kids (as young as three or four) know all of it (and some of their parent's data too). I would think five would be a proper age to know personal address, personal phone number, and at least two emergency contact numbers. I think four or five is also a proper age for a child to begin learning situational awareness and a kidnapping prevention plan.
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Re: Children should know ....

Postby Squeeky » Tue, 12Apr03 11:14

This has taken a slant that I hadn't really considered, well, maybe subconsciously, I don't recall. I was really considering an inter-family agenda even if estranged.

That this has gone "tangent" to my initial thinking worries me to no degree! All are good lessons for very definite circumstances, and for those who might need to utilise them.
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Re: Children should know ....

Postby Raelee » Tue, 12Apr03 23:52

Perhaps the time will come when we have and “Orwellian” type of society and each child will have an ID implant put in at birth. I would be something akin to that implanted in pets now. It could be configured to show not only who the person was but present location and who to contact in an emergency. Frighting thought!!!

Until then, considering today's world a child should begin being taught who they are, who to contact and how to protect against abduction as soon as it is aware enough to be able to retain the data.

It is a sad commentary that we must teach children to mistrust others but too often that kindly white haired old man, with the beatific smile just cut apart the last child that trusted him in his bath tub.

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Re: Children should know ....

Postby Greebo » Wed, 12Apr04 00:10

Hmm, from what I gather it's most likely to be Uncle Harry rather than some stranger, unfortunately!
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Re: Children should know ....

Postby Loup Garou » Wed, 12Apr04 03:35

Uncle Harry is definitely a problem. And one that should be addressed. "If anyone (including strangers and people you know) tries to do anything to you, tell me. They may tell you that if you say anything to me about it, I will stop loving you. That is not true. Nothing will ever stop me from loving you. They may also tell you that if you say anything to me, they will hurt you... or me.... if someone says that, definitely ignore that and talk to me right away and I will help you talk to the police and the person making that threat will be put in jail and he won't be able to hurt you or me. And they may say that if you tell, you will get in trouble, too, because what you did was just as bad as what they did. That is a lie. You will never be in trouble for something someone else did if you let me know what has happened. Trust me, I am your (fill in familial relationship here), I will always love you, I will always help you deal with a difficult situation, and if you always come to me and tell me the truth, I am not going to be mad at you because of someone else's actions. I am sure I will get mad, but it will be at the person who tried to take advantage of you and make you do something that you didn't want to do. One final note. If I find out through some other source that someone was doing bad things to you but you never told me, I will get mad at you. Not because you did something wrong but because you didn't tell me. If you had told me the moment the situation began to happen, we could have stopped it much earlier. But do not think that because I am mad at you I no longer love you. I am just mad because someone that I told to trust me and tell me about problems did not do so and got hurt. This is just the kind of mad like you get when your mom doesn't make the macaroni and cheese that you asked for. You still love her, but you really wanted the mac&cheese. Just as you will get over the fact that you did not get the dish you wanted, I will get over you not telling me what happened. And, of course, I will still love you."

Ok... bit of a long speech, but hey, I get that way. The two most important things that you do at the end of that speech is to ask the child if s/he has any questions (and answer them if asked) and to give the child a very big, very serious bear hug.
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Re: Children should know ....

Postby Squeeky » Wed, 12Apr04 04:43

Loup Garou wrote:
Ok... bit of a long speech, but hey, I get that way. The two most important things that you do at the end of that speech is to ask the child if s/he has any questions (and answer them if asked) and to give the child a very big, very serious bear hug.

Yep, so right, a long speech. And hey, it need not be "Uncle Harry"! I've tried to make some distance with my "little" girls, the elder primarily although the other will have been getting some "messages". I'll address that a bit later.
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Re: Children should know ....

Postby Squeeky » Wed, 12Apr04 08:11

The "little" girls spend vacation periods with us, most enjoyable.
Sometimes it befalls me to ensure their bathtime.

The older granddaughter (Gd) has been made aware of not showing herself naked to a male. These days that's fine but occasionally things don't quite work out like that.

We also have in place a thing about "Keeping Secrets", I do recall a program being trialled at least in some schools having in essence this sentiment:
"Secrets are only good if you want to give someone a nice surprise. They are bad if someone can be hurt because of them. If someone tries to get a promise because of that then the secret is bad!"

Unfortunately Gd lives in a split family environment where Mummy has a third child. Exiting after violence Mummy resumed the relationship.

In that short exit period the girls were with us for a few days. It seemed timely to build a sense of reality that Mummy would get a new partner and so infer potential dangers of that.

Taking that, Gd's nudity and changing environments into account I broached the subject that some people could try to get her panties off and play with her 'rudie', and try to make her keep a "secret". I did actually address many of the issues Loup Garou spoke off, yes the blackmail, the guilt thing. I hope that all sank in. Yes, hopefully, if so confronted then, she is aware of close family and the School Welfare Officer to offer her confidence.

On the perimeter of the above is an actual "Uncle Harry" but a little closer to home and currently serving time.
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Re: Children should know ....

Postby Squeeky » Wed, 12Apr04 09:15

I'm going to divert from the essence of the theme as it was going.

"Children need to know .." that they are loved.
Parents too often assume that money, gifts, material things will express and engender love!

What do my "little" girls need?
Company, new experiences, a window on life and its many challenges, things that just don't happen at Daddy's and might just be starting to happen at Mummy's.

From an early age they have learned from dining out some small protocols, like lining up cutlery to express finished. At home we have to have our drink coasters and place mats (doesn't happen in either of their other residences).

Prawns are a treat! We love Pa making Pizza, homemade dough. The good part is getting to 'decorate' our own small pizza from whatever toppings Pa has, sliced salami, sliced boiled egg, prawn tails, cheese (no olives, onion, tomato for one). Then there is homemade pasta, Gd helped make that once, very good with prawn tails!

Apart from cooking various small kid recipes with either Nan or Pa they enjoy a trip to the local library to borrow. Over summer our home pool has been great, Gd progressed well this last season. They have bicycles, again, Gd was riding free on the last visit. Scooters. Yes, they like to ride aroung the home residential block. Material things? We cannot dismiss shopping can we? Nan does impose a one item, low cost selection! Gd bought a $10 digital camera with computer software (yes, obvious gimmicks) which she can interface with our home computers.

Stop! We sit down, they want to cuddle up! Or they run up and cuddle into your thighs, "I love you." Why? Is it because of everything and more noted above, or maybe that those things are enriched with security.

Security?
We have a basic set of rules, nothing written, but the foundation is:
A. This is the premise, do it.
B. There will be follow-up! A check within reasonable time of the nature of direction.

I've seen that B has not occurred with either Mummy or Daddy, I don't mean a smack but rather that the instruction has not been followed. Ah! It does become a bit of a challenge when we have rules of the other two environments are tested against ours!

Let them know:
Love and Security.

The materials,
the events,
they are just mere tokens that foster a genuine companionship but not necessarily to ensure a sturdy relationship! Work has to be put in.

Edit: In summary I am really saying guide them, nurture them, give them respect and the companionship that is shared NOT at a peer level but where the senior partner assumes a leadership dominance. (If I could rule the world for just 5 minutes just to implement that as a law)!
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Re: Children should know ....

Postby Loup Garou » Wed, 12Apr04 10:50

Uncle Harry is only a symbol of the possible "known" assailants. Not just blood relatives, but teachers, medical staff (doctors, dentists, nurses...), clergy members, neighbors, crossing attendants... the list could go on. I used Uncle Harry because of Greebo's comment and because of the experiences of a friend. A long time ago, my best friend was molested by an uncle. Ok, he never penetrated her, but he did expose himself and some physical contact was made, but her hymen remained unbroken. The other thing to know about this is that he wasn't her uncle. He was a mentally challenged man whom her grandmother had, long before this happened, taken into her home to give him a life. She never adopted him, but he was always considered a member of the family. That is, until he was caught molesting my friend when she was (if I rem correctly) 8 or 9 years old.

As to knowing that they are loved.... while we do live in a material world, there are always simpler, more effective ways to reassure a child that s/he is loved. Talking with them (not just at them), teaching them (anything from helping with homework to showing them how to cook home made pizza), learning from them, laughing with them, giving them a big old shoulder to cry on (like when Bambi's mother dies), showing them the world around them, helping them create a world of their own. These are all wonderful demonstrations of affection, but of course, nothing beats the big three -- hug 'me, give 'em a kiss on the forehead, and tell 'em that you love 'em. Of course, they will get to an age (12 or 13) when hugging and forehead kisses and "I love you" will make them squirm a little and say "Aw, come on. Pa.... Stop doing that." To which I would reply, "I will compromise with you. I will not embarrass you in public... very often. *smile* However, in private, any time that I usually give you a hug or a kiss, if you tell me that you know I love you, I will know that it is not necessary to demonstrate it at that time. But any time you forget to mention that, I am gonna give you a bear hug.. just to make sure you haven't forgotten how I feel about you. *bear hug* That was just a demonstration. *smile*"
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Re: Children should know ....

Postby Squeeky » Wed, 12Apr04 12:13

Oh you "old dog"! You really are a "sheep ...."! [img]images/icones/icon10.gif[/img]

I think that from within your commentary and my latter two there is enough for us to claim momentary world dictatorship in the interests of children.

Why? Why? Just why do kids have to be so exposed? Oh, I know the answer(s), but why? Same damn answer(s)! [img]images/icones/icon5.gif[/img]
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Re: Children should know ....

Postby Loup Garou » Wed, 12Apr04 19:47

It would be so much a better world if children could remain children as long as possible. But what can you do (other than be a global dictator)? Guard them as much as you can. Make sure they always know you love them. Tell them they can talk to you about anything if they need to talk. Give them freedom to explore, but make sure they know that sitting next to you is a safe place if they need a safe harbor. Parenting (and grandparenting) is a never ending task. Any time you are getting tired of it, know that there is a wolf spirit near by to help you regain your energy and continue the fight to give your grandchildren as good a life as you can possibly give them. [img]images/icones/icon13.gif[/img]
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Re: Children should know ....

Postby Loup Garou » Fri, 13Jul26 22:32

Squeeky,

Looking through old posts, I noticed this discussion and thought I would ask how things are going with your Gd. I hope things are going as well as can be expected. And I hope she is keeping you in the loop about what is going on in her life.

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