English 101

[LucaNatoli]

I find it interesting that there is debate over which dialect is preferred to be the golden standard for the English Language.

Agreed.


WARNING: This thread is heading off topic. Get back on topic.

Thank you.

[PinkVendeta]

I find it interesting that there is debate over which dialect is preferred to be the golden standard for the English Language.

Agreed.


WARNING: This thread is heading off topic. Get back on topic.

Thank you.

Who deleted my response to Greeby?

[PinkVendeta]

Actually Greeby, since we are using pet names now for each other

You stated: what I said has little factual basis that You are aware of, well there are many things that You are not clearly aware of, so let me educate You now somewhat on The Queens English right now, make sure to read it all through fully and then take a moment or two to postulate it all in your mind before You formulate what you want to say to me with an informed reply this time

This was written by: Dr Bernard Lamb, Emeritus Reader in Genetics at Imperial College London, President of the Queen's English Society and author of 'The Queen's English and How to Use It', published by Michael O' Mara Books

Me calling you PinkyV is ancient history from back in the days when you were PinkVendetta, I'll refrain if you like -- I used to enjoy chatting to you but you have lost some of my respect I'm afraid.
I suppose I ought to bow to the wisdom vested in a venerable institution like the Queen's English Society since it has such trustworthy, ancient roots -- formed in 1972 wasn't it, by a bunch of nutters wanting to spread an almost non existent myth?

Dr Bernard Lamb clearly knows more about Queen's English than You do, so I will be referring to people who know more and are clearly not nutters, typical response when confronted with the truth, label someone a nutter.

Queen's English is spoken all over Europe, deal with that fact and move on.

[LucaNatoli]

Who deleted my response to Greeby?

That would be me.

Political views and posts about "what if's" do not belong here.

Also, I found a few threads here, between all of you, disrespectful to other Lagooners, henceforth I deleted them. Greebo has been a member here, well longer than I can remember. In saying that, if you want to argue with each other, please use the PM section and keep it private. Arguments between Lagooners are not to be made public, no matter the situation or beliefs.

Thank you.

[PinkVendeta]

Cool.

Greebo has been a member here a LONG time, and a great member also, but Gerry knows when I am right about something, in this case how widely spoken the Queen's English is in most of Europe and else where in the world, I will say it and not let go of the fact and then as always I back it up with proof from people who are not nutters.

[PinkVendeta]

Did everyone in shake spears time speak English like this:

But thou, contracted to thine own bright eyes,
Feed'st thy light'st flame with self-substantial fuel,

Or did he embellish the English and twist it to suit his own needs?

[muttdoggy]

You know.. English 101 is taught depending on the instructor assigned to the course. That instructor influences those students and they propagate it. Unless the student was ME!
I attended Rochester Institute of Technology in the fall of 1994. My test scores went well above the requirement for any 101 course so I went to Course 150: The Future of Writing. This was taught at the time by an immigrant from India who looked good for her age. She impressed me quite well in the first class so I paid rapt attention and guessed that she must be an excellent Professor to be teaching the course. Over the next 3 weeks, I began to realize she was in over her head as she frequently referred to the books instead of teaching it from her perspective. And she often incorrectly graded papers and rarely proofread or pointed out errors. We only saw crossed out sections and "read the book" on our papers.
During the middle of the third week, we were covering technical english and were given the assignment of writing a manual. I wrote a manual on how to maintain and service hearing aides since that's something I'm familiar with. I turned in my assignment and was assured that I would get a good grade since I knew the subject matter and wrote according the rules set forth in the textbook concerning Technical Writing. I get my paper back and sat in stunned silence staring at the "D" on my paper. I looked at my friend across the class and flashed signs indicating I got a "D" and she replied that her grade was a "C". I immediately asked the Professor for clarification regarding the rules I'd read since I believed I'd followed them and she replied that I must have misunderstood them. So I asked "Then can you please go over this with us so we don't have the wrong..." as I about to say "idea" she spun and said something I couldn't understand in a sharp tone. A friend turned white so I looked at her and she signed she said "your paper was wrong!". So I got upset and said "I followed every (curse) rule in that book and my comprehension skills are NOT in dispute. Don't tell me I erred by following the correct rules!" It devolved into an argument where I accused her of being a clueless person who's way above her station and she was accusing me of being a spoiled rich brat. To clarify - I was actually lower middle class and was there on a scholarship and federal grants based on my scores and aptitudes.
Well.. I cussed her out, walked out of class and was quickly summoned to the Associate Dean's office to explain my "uncharacteristic insubordination". I submitted to alcohol and drug tests and tested clean. Spoke with several people and gave the associate dean copies of my assignment, my course notes, and my notebook I'd been using for the course. I encouraged them to speak with the other students. I was informed that I was "withdrawn" from the class would be notified shortly of any decisions made. I got my response the following week in the form of a packet in my mailbox. I opened it and there was my assignment with an "A" and "Well Written!" next to a crossed out "D" and my status was changed from "withdrawn" to getting credited for the course with a C.
Later on, I was dining on hot wings in the tunnels under the school when I ran across a Professor for the Advanced English courses who was born and raised in Olney, England. We had some good conversations and interestingly enough, her favorite poet was Walt Whitman and her favorite author was.... Mark Twain. Her favorite style of writing is the same as mine which is "publicistic" but we have our differences.. She's a bit more elevated whereas I use more prose in my style.
I read widely as a child and I still do. I have a physical library of over 200+ books but just shy of 400 in digital form. I read Shakespeare, Stevenson, Dickens, Thoreau, Whitman, Cummings, Kipling, CSS Lewis, JRR Tolkien, and especially loved Issac Asimov as a child. When I reached my teen years, I read more of R.A. Salvatore, Frank Herbert, Heinlein, Robert Asprin, Anne McCaffrey, Auel, Robert Jordan, and AA Attanasio. I think I re-read "Radix" 3 times in a row.

[PinkVendeta]

That was a good read, it is important to read and keep the mind fresh, always nice to go to bed and be mentally wrecked from using your brain the way it should be used, but, it did not answer what I asked which was:

Did everyone in shake spears time speak English like this:

But thou, contracted to thine own bright eyes,
Feed'st thy light'st flame with self-substantial fuel,

Or did he embellish the English and twist it to suit his own needs?

[Greyelf]

Did everyone in shake spears time speak English like this:

But thou, contracted to thine own bright eyes,
Feed'st thy light'st flame with self-substantial fuel,

That is prose, so the answer would be No.

On the other hand, if you had asked "Did they use words and grammar that is rarely/not used today?" then the answer would be Yes.
It would also be Yes if you asked "Was SP known to make up words/phases/grammar?" or "Did any of the things SP made up become part of the English language?"

[muttdoggy]

Shakespeare was a playwright. These were events that were generally held in theaters that were mostly indoors with some being held outside. He altered the language and speaking style for dramatic flair. If I wanted to know how they tended to speak and write, I'd read Francis Bacon's essays. But he was well-educated and I don't know if that's how most people in England spoke. I'd assume he would be close but there would be dialects like there are today.

[PinkVendeta]

Shakespeare was a playwright. These were events that were generally held in theaters that were mostly indoors with some being held outside. He altered the language and speaking style for dramatic flair. If I wanted to know how they tended to speak and write, I'd read Francis Bacon's essays. But he was well-educated and I don't know if that's how most people in England spoke. I'd assume he would be close but there would be dialects like there are today.

Thanks for the answer.

[Xyzzy987]

Shakespeare was also a poet, and the couplet that Hannah cites is from his Sonnet number 1. Poets have a very long and time-honored tradition of embellishing and twisting language to suit their own needs, from long before Shakespeare's time up to today,and no doubt into the foreseeable future.

[Xyzzy987]

So here's a question: When the queen dies, and her grandson assumes the throne, will they change their name to The King's English Society? And will we be encouraged to speak the King's English?

[muttdoggy]

Hasn't it always been the Queen's English since Elizabeth??
Couldn't they possibly come up with a more acceptable name? Seeking approval from the Monarchy is for days long past. We're in a more interconnected society and language is fast becoming more and more flexible. Since the silicon chip was invented, it's completely altered the methods we use for communication.

[PinkVendeta]

Shakespeare was also a poet, and the couplet that Hannah cites is from his Sonnet number 1. Poets have a very long and time-honored tradition of embellishing and twisting language to suit their own needs, from long before Shakespeare's time up to today,and no doubt into the foreseeable future.

Great answer.