Pusooy's Castle Gravenstein 4

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Re: Pusooy's Castle Gravenstein 4

Postby Mortze » Mon, 15Oct05 23:15

kessie8dn wrote:Sorry to say but I disagree. I've not played part 5 yet because I don't think it's worth the money, but the story hardly moved along in the first 4 parts and I haven't seen anything from those who have played part 5 to make me believe anything has changed.

I've no idea where the story is going - frankly I'm close to the point where I no longer care. The plot has not been presented very well at all. This would be acceptable in a game because the back-story is usually secondary but novels depend on story progression and there just isn't enough of that here. Possibly this is the result of trying to include too many characters? Given the time being taken for everyone to have sex with everyone else, there's hardly any time left for an actual story to develop. The answer would seem to be to either keep the story simple and throw in lots of action or go for an in depth story with less action to keep things moving.

By the way - I don't know of any strict definition of the "interactive novel" but I whinced when it was used in the context of Pusooy. In my experience the outcomes of an interactive novel change depending on the action of the reader. The Leoniser group (LoP, etc) produce the kind of thing I'd regard as "interactive stories", each story having several different endings. That doesn't happen in Pusooy. I do agree that CG is not a game, although they feel closer to Shark's material than anything else I can compare them with and Shark seems to have no problem with his work being labelled as a game. This totally linear format of Pusooy's is therefore neither one thing or the other. I am sure it would improve considerably if he would just make his mind up.


Well, interactive novel implies interaction and choice's consequences, you are right. That's why I prefer to label it as visual novels where the only interactivity lies in moving the characters during the action scenes.

This is the style he adopted and that's it. Some like, others don't. I don't apreciate poetry but I recognize that it is art.

The story takes a while to develop, you are right again. We have been given small clues but not enough to make a better picture of what's happening in that castle. But again, that's Pusoy's style of writing. I remember in Mummy, a fairly successfull visual novel, we got cut short at the end and all wished to know more of waht would follow.
It is a writting style. You can criticise it but one thing is true; he remains coherent with his work. And some people love it. I like it. So I believe that's ok for him and he feels comfortable to keep on that track.

We can't please everybody, right. I'm quite sure that the game I'm making will not please everybody.

You have good points in your argumentation though. I give you that.
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Re: Pusooy's Castle Gravenstein 4

Postby Greyelf » Mon, 15Oct05 23:38

kessie8dn wrote:By the way - I don't know of any strict definition of the "interactive novel" but I whinced when it was used in the context of Pusooy.

If this in reaction to my "partly interactive visual novels" comment then I would like to say that I was very careful in the words I chose to use.

I believe it is correct to describe his visual novels as partly interactive because at times they require the reader to interact with the screen for the story to progress (the sex scenes), and that interaction is more than just the standard "Click here to continue".
You are correct that his visual novels do not supply choices / interactions to the reader that effect the story line, but then again neither do some other visual mediums that tell stories (like video).
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Re: Pusooy's Castle Gravenstein 4

Postby LucaNatoli » Tue, 15Oct06 02:57

spitzertyp wrote:I can't reproduce this possible bug.
what browser do you use?
did you tell it on pusos board?


Nah, didn't post it on the board. Was version 0.61 i think, browser Firefox. Tried clearing cache and everything. All well. What is the current on they have now, last i checked the game was Beta 0.61

Greyelf wrote:
kessie8dn wrote:By the way - I don't know of any strict definition of the "interactive novel" but I whinced when it was used in the context of Pusooy.

If this in reaction to my "partly interactive visual novels" comment then I would like to say that I was very careful in the words I chose to use.

I believe it is correct to describe his visual novels as partly interactive because at times they require the reader to interact with the screen for the story to progress (the sex scenes), and that interaction is more than just the standard "Click here to continue".
You are correct that his visual novels do not supply choices / interactions to the reader that effect the story line, but then again neither do some other visual mediums that tell stories (like video).


His "games" have always been a novel type of thing. BUT in saying that, his latest novels are getting, whats the word, boring, no that doesn't seem right, stale. Yeah stale. The interactions are few, the story seems to be lacking. His older novels had a more hands on approach to them, which have been eliminated now and replaced by a quick 20 second interaction.

Look at his older titles, like cheerleader and farmers daughter. Pretty much ALL hands on, with the tractor, barn etc etc. He seems to make his newest interactive novels less interactive and more story driven, which story wise, is meh at best. Puso does do great work with his visuals, but unfortunately his novels seem to be created for zombies these days that don't want a little challenge or don't want to think or work out how to get to the next scene, like the pirate novel (bloodheart) he did (and never finished the second part), trying to work out how to remove the girls clothing took time and patience, all of which what modern gamers lack these days (erotic games, console games etc etc), time and patience. Look at mobile gaming for instance, people will pay (in micro transaction form) just to finish the game early, instead of collecting things the normal way, they pay to skip it or pay to beat it. Hope his next Novels go back to the core of what started his work, or i am done with his stuff, sorry Puso.
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Re: Pusooy's Castle Gravenstein 4

Postby ttsouth » Tue, 15Oct06 14:19

I know people don't like to give out full on clues but I forgot to look at what the code was to switch scenes on Castle Gravenstein 5. If you have it can you hide it or send me a PM. If not I'll play through all again. I really just want to go back to scene 2 as that was very nice.
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Re: Pusooy's Castle Gravenstein 4

Postby Mortze » Tue, 15Oct06 14:47

ttsouth wrote:I know people don't like to give out full on clues but I forgot to look at what the code was to switch scenes on Castle Gravenstein 5. If you have it can you hide it or send me a PM. If not I'll play through all again. I really just want to go back to scene 2 as that was very nice.

Search for "blood" in german.

LucaNatoli wrote:Look at his older titles, like cheerleader and farmers daughter. Pretty much ALL hands on, with the tractor, barn etc etc. He seems to make his newest interactive novels less interactive and more story driven, which story wise, is meh at best. Puso does do great work with his visuals, but unfortunately his novels seem to be created for zombies these days that don't want a little challenge or don't want to think or work out how to get to the next scene, like the pirate novel (bloodheart) he did (and never finished the second part), trying to work out how to remove the girls clothing took time and patience, all of which what modern gamers lack these days (erotic games, console games etc etc), time and patience. Look at mobile gaming for instance, people will pay (in micro transaction form) just to finish the game early, instead of collecting things the normal way, they pay to skip it or pay to beat it. Hope his next Novels go back to the core of what started his work, or i am done with his stuff, sorry Puso.


I will disagree with you here. This is my opinion formed solely on my point of view as a player/creator. What I do like in this sexy types of game is a good storyline coupled with a good sexual build-up to get me...interested lets say.
I do not think any type of or puzzle is welcomed because it deviates your focus from the sexual build-up. When you are with a girl, all excited and all, I don't think that strugling with the bra hook or wich shirt button to poen and in wich order, will help keeping the sexy mood. On the contraire, these challenges can get you frustrated. Overall, it keeps you from the natural sexual flow that this games are made for. I believe that there are other types of entertainement to challenge the brain (and I belienve it is important) but these games or novels aren't suited for that. Well, not for me in any case. And you won't find that in my games.
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Re: Pusooy's Castle Gravenstein 4

Postby LucaNatoli » Wed, 15Oct07 05:16

Mortze wrote:I will disagree with you here. This is my opinion formed solely on my point of view as a player/creator. What I do like in this sexy types of game is a good storyline coupled with a good sexual build-up to get me...interested lets say.
I do not think any type of or puzzle is welcomed because it deviates your focus from the sexual build-up. When you are with a girl, all excited and all, I don't think that strugling with the bra hook or wich shirt button to poen and in wich order, will help keeping the sexy mood. On the contraire, these challenges can get you frustrated. Overall, it keeps you from the natural sexual flow that this games are made for. I believe that there are other types of entertainement to challenge the brain (and I belienve it is important) but these games or novels aren't suited for that. Well, not for me in any case. And you won't find that in my games.


That is your point of view, and as a creator have the right to do what you will with the games you create especially if there are no interactions in your games, i am just stating, that Puso use to have more interactions (hands on approach) in his novels, but lately they seemed to be wiped out. I enjoyed the puzzles, much like Sharks games, his has puzzles and most, if not all, welcome it. In saying that, the reason i think he (Puso) has washed most of his interactions out, is these days he is being hounded by the public to get games out it seems, like LOP they are also being hounded, so they release games then the public do not like them because they are too short or lack story, and Puso's novels are lacking a good story in his new ones, i mean the first 1 and 2 of Castle Gravenstein where pretty good, not great but good, but the last few were not so good ie: 4 and 5, they felt, rushed.
Now, i am no stranger to Puso and his work, i was there when he first started them and i am still there, but i am stating when he first started his novels, there was a more hands approach, i kind of got use to his games in that direction, it felt more rewarding to complete them, instead of the wiggle the mouse here and there approach of today's novels, he has now simplified it to that, and well basically, i as one, am not use to his novels being so, non interactive. It would be like Shark removing all his interactions and puzzles out of his games, so your left with maybe 2 interaction scenes that are very minimal, do you understand where i am coming from?
Now, newer people who found Puso's games, enjoy his work as it stands there today, if he did incorporate the puzzles again they would get frustrated because they are not use to puzzles in his games. Unless they play all the older ones and get the drift from them. As a member from the start, there are a few complaints about his novels lacking "interactions" from other long term members. I will see what he does with his next installment and see if he can incorporate both in them.
I know for one, Arnii's games are basically like Puso's older work, they are story driven with puzzles and lots of interactions. Arnii might be some one to keep an eye out for, his work seems to be pretty good. He is up to his second installments of his Novels, he just finished his first ones off.

Now if i wanted to play a minimal game with zero interactions, i might as well go watch a xxx movie, that is basically what i feel (and other users) that Puso is heading towards that direction. Puzzles do not necessary break immersion if done correctly (that is the key), as you can see they work great in Shark's games and work great in Arnii's games, even VDate's games have some puzzles. The key is finding how to place a more of a "hands on approach" during scenes, like maybe pulling down a top, or bending over, or drinking etc etc. They don't have to be puzzles, maybe just more interactions to make the novel more "immersive". Interactions do not break story or immersion, they actually make you feel like you are in control of the story / game, like you are the one telling the story / game [img]images/icones/icon7.gif[/img] .
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Re: Pusooy's Castle Gravenstein 4

Postby kessie8dn » Wed, 15Oct07 18:19

Greyelf wrote:You are correct that his visual novels do not supply choices / interactions to the reader that effect the story line, but then again neither do some other visual mediums that tell stories (like video).


To try to excuse the lack of interactivity by comparing them with a totally different area of entertainment is a bit desparate. Portait painting and TV are "visual mediums" but you couldn't compare a Constable landscape with NCIS LA in the same breath.

Pusooys product is more like reading a paperback - I interact with a book by turning the pages but it makes no difference to the direction the story is taking.

In my opinion Shark's games are more like puzzles set within a story. The LoP group are more like interactive stories because they have a number of different outcomes, not just "win" or "lose".

I also get the feeling that he's tried to shoehorn too many characters and sub-plots into each story and the quality of the story as well as the playability suffers as a result.. Pusooy usually starts off having some Shark-like elements, but not enough - and there seems to be fewer as each series develops. He then decides it's because he's not making "games" any more. It's more like he's become bored and can't wait to move on to the next series, so the gameplay goes out of the window. I noticed this in Beach Party and from other comments I've read here it seems CG is going the same way too.. "Lack of time" and "other committments" were mentioned when he was questioned about this in BP, yet he was apparently able to work on CG.
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Re: Pusooy's Castle Gravenstein 4

Postby Spike1981 » Thu, 15Oct08 11:18

LucaNatoli wrote:part 5 of the novel seems to be bugged for me. Scene 3 when he is going at it with the maid with the cat, after the love heart pulsates, he climaxes, then they are just stuck humping each other, can't proceed, stays on the scene with them humping, unless i am missing something that i should be looking for. It is pretty buggy.



I Have the Same Problem and i use firefox too

and i don't Know what to do about it!
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Re: Pusooy's Castle Gravenstein 4

Postby Greyelf » Thu, 15Oct08 13:21

kessie8dn wrote:To try to excuse the lack of interactivity by comparing them with a totally different area of entertainment is a bit desparate.

I am not trying to excuse the lack of interactivity because I don't believe a lot of it is needed in a visual novel which is why I pointed out that you can tell visual stories without interactivity.

You keep talking about things like playability which implies game-play which in turn implies it is a game, which it is quite obviously not and nor does he claim it to be. The projects he made in the past where more interactive because they were actually games and as such needed to be, I would say that he stopped making games around the same time he started improving the quality of his artwork.

It takes time to create artwork, to write stories, to write game code and to improve one's skills in any of those three abilities. A single individual only has a limited amount of time to spend on creating something so they need to either spend the limited time wisely on the things that they consider more important or they need to increase the amount of time they have to spend. The problem is that doing either of these two things can upset the consumers of the creations because they generally want the best of all three abilities, and they want it all yesterday if not the day before. lol
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Re: Pusooy's Castle Gravenstein 4

Postby Stev-23 » Fri, 15Oct09 16:21

The part 5 is a big disappointment.

3 I repeat 3 bugs, absolutley no story - I remember about the Part 3 ! This was amazing stuff, not this uninspirated 5th one :??: :??: :??: :??:
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Re: Pusooy's Castle Gravenstein 4

Postby Spike1981 » Sun, 15Oct11 20:09

I am Stuck In Scene 3 from Castle Gravenstein 5

he doesn't Stop Fucking The Maid

what am i doing Wrong? Please Someone Help Me!!
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Re: Pusooy's Castle Gravenstein 4

Postby kessie8dn » Mon, 15Oct12 00:33

Greyelf wrote:
kessie8dn wrote:To try to excuse the lack of interactivity by comparing them with a totally different area of entertainment is a bit desparate.

I am not trying to excuse the lack of interactivity because I don't believe a lot of it is needed in a visual novel which is why I pointed out that you can tell visual stories without interactivity.

You keep talking about things like playability which implies game-play which in turn implies it is a game, which it is quite obviously not and nor does he claim it to be. The projects he made in the past where more interactive because they were actually games and as such needed to be, I would say that he stopped making games around the same time he started improving the quality of his artwork.

It takes time to create artwork, to write stories, to write game code and to improve one's skills in any of those three abilities. A single individual only has a limited amount of time to spend on creating something so they need to either spend the limited time wisely on the things that they consider more important or they need to increase the amount of time they have to spend. The problem is that doing either of these two things can upset the consumers of the creations because they generally want the best of all three abilities, and they want it all yesterday if not the day before. lol


OK forget "playability" let's just call it "engagement", "absorbtion" or even just plain "entertainment"... I accept you're Pusooy's greatest fan or whatever but please try to keep it sensible. Comparing Pusooy's ouvre to cinema is totally over the top.
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Re: Pusooy's Castle Gravenstein 4

Postby Greyelf » Mon, 15Oct12 01:40

kessie8dn wrote:... I accept you're Pusooy's greatest fan ...
I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion as I stated quite clearly that I am not even an Elite member..
Greyelf wrote:note: I have not personally viewed the later episodes of Castle Gravenstein because I am not an Elite member.


kessie8dn wrote:Comparing Pusooy's ouvre to cinema is totally over the top.
I have made no comments on nor any comparisons of the visual novel's content to anything, I just stated that there are methods to tell visual stories that require little or no interaction from the viewer and I gave video as an example of one of those methods. What I have made comments on are some peoples unreasonable expectation of game related features/functionality in something that is not a game, and their criticisms based on those expectations.
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Re: Pusooy's Castle Gravenstein 4

Postby ut1stgear1 » Mon, 15Oct12 22:40

Spike1981 wrote:
LucaNatoli wrote:part 5 of the novel seems to be bugged for me. Scene 3 when he is going at it with the maid with the cat, after the love heart pulsates, he climaxes, then they are just stuck humping each other, can't proceed, stays on the scene with them humping, unless i am missing something that i should be looking for. It is pretty buggy.



I Have the Same Problem and i use firefox too

and i don't Know what to do about it!

GC5 did have some bugs/broken links mostly that were pointed out to Puso on his boards. It is now in Beta and working well. Most if not all of the bugs were caught in Alpha. GC6 is now in development. I believe that is the final chapter in this game/novel. I use FireFox and have only had issues with the bugs so it was not my browser.
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Re: Pusooy's Castle Gravenstein 4

Postby ruby321 » Tue, 15Oct27 16:13

Frankenstein is the one of my top 5! [img]images/icones/icon13.gif[/img] [img]images/icones/icon14.gif[/img] [img]images/icones/icon17.gif[/img]
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