Sharks lagoon have over time devoloped into a scene for adult game creators, and that's something that we all apprechiate. First of all because many of the regulars here are closet programmers, designers etc. etc. and second of all because it makes a brilliant platform where us other mortals that just play games get a navigation tool in the jungle of crap out there so we can find our ways to the gems.

One problem that have been with the scene out there is that it has been hugely dominated by japanese game developers. Don't get me wrong, those guys got serious skills and have set the trend many times on how things should be done. However when you live in Europe we got a very different opinion of the consept of a game. I Japan dressup games are insanely popular, and I still for the life of me figure out why. Another idiotic trend is that they make movies where the plot stop and you have to click on a button to make the plot advance and they call it a game. It's off course complete bullshit, but over there it's obviously accepted as these " games " keep spewing out. Another problem is that because of they got a very difference sentence structure in their language the english that they use are in best case scenario lacking. I am not talking about simple grammar mistakes, I am betting that I got quite a few of them myself even in this post, but to make an example in Japan they say Onichan(this is from memory most likely mispelled) to males that are older to you, not only your older brother. This is lost in translation as we don't and as a result you got girls running around calling total strangers for older brother in the english translations.

Where am I going with this bantering ?
The people here on this site have tried allmost every game out there in pretty much every genre inside the adult game genre. We are used to games like the ones Sharks, virtua date girls and ArianneB. Nobody is expecting you to come out of nohing and create something right up there right away. Chaotic is the only one that I know of that released a first game that went right up there among the very best of them. You can learn alot from the way that he did it. These are the kind of games that we will compare your game to. If you got your game infront of you and you see that it's not finished, got major bugs lacking plot or exactly the same as a million other games out there, stop and think for a second. I can imagine that the prossess is a long and hard one and at a certain point you are so tired that you get physically ill just by thinking about the game. But then you put it to the side, take a break and continue at a later stage. Because if you cut corners and release a halfassed game or a clone of another game that we have seen countless times before you game will get slaughtered.

What you should do instead is that when you are stuck, or wonder if this is any good, show us a trial version and say this is what I got so far, what do you think ? any hints and tips ? You will see that there are plenty of people out here that are willing to help. Let us raise the standard of games and with quality releases go to war on all that mindless halfassed crap that's release out there that people get away with because that's the only way some horny teenage punks get to see a boob.

when i create a game with real girl, people answer:

" dude can you add anime/hentai content in your next game ?"



"Another idiotic trend is that they make movies where the plot stop and you have to click on a button to make the plot advance and they call it a game."

i agree but these games have the best ranking at newgrounds

Tjommi said: ". . . dressup games are insanely popular, and I still for the life of me figure out why."

I never got that one either. To me, getting a girls clothes off, is the game.

M

and people want easy games.

so why not find a button is the screen and try to click it.

gamebp wrote : and people want easy games.

so why not find a button is the screen and try to click it.

I don't really think most game players really want easy games. Many of those people who rate those games highly are looking for porn and not games. They are the same ones that enjoy the adult comics and the short films. The fewer clicks involved in getting their images the better they like it. True game players enjoy something that is truely a game such as presented by Shark and Pusooy OR ArianneB, LOP BE, Robozou, Virtual Date Girls, Orgasm Girl, School Dreams 3, etc. To be a true game you must be able to lose as well as win and have various levels of success.
Most so called adult games are pieces of junk that are just click and watch. I'm totally in agreement with Tjommi's comments.

Exactly!

Finally a sensible post! I agree with the most of it (I tried to make some of these points in a VDC thread I think). You should keep in mind though that hentai and japanese is not always the same (not all hentai games are japanese, but that said they do usually borrow the same 'gameplay' concepts).

But yea, it's pretty much as blevins says it: "To be a true game you must be able to lose as well as win and have various levels of success".
And by saying that I'm going to commit what most of the people out here will consider blasphemy, and say that Sharks and Pusooys games don't score that well on this criterium.
Most sharks games are solvable by this simple strategy: find all clickable areas, click and hold the mouse for a given period on each area, repeat 3 times. In a rare occasion you need to click one region and then click and hold a 2nd region. The 'puzzle' that it wants to be is really not that hard and in most cases trivial. Pusooys games are more like: wiggle the mouse in the right area. But the same principle goes, it's really not that hard. The main thing these games lack though is replayability, they are totally linear.
But don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they are bad, the animation in their games is excellent. But then you really need to ask yourself if you're looking for a 'game', or just a slightly interactive animation.

My point being that most people here praise Shark and Pusooy like they are gods, but if you're going to bash on 'click and watch' games you might want to hold them to the same standards.

In defense of Shark's games, there is gameplay involved. You have to click the proper areas, the proper number of times, and hold to a proper level before continuing. Many of his games do involve the chance of failure (nanny catches you, the girl wakes too soon, etc.) when things are not done properly. He also had multiple endings in many of his games. Pusooy has many of those same qualities in his games. The thing I don't like about Pusooy's games is the rapid repetitive movement of the mouse required at various points of the game - My wrists hurt after successfully playing most of his games. But I do consider both of their efforts to be true adult computer games.
However the games like School Dreams 3, Robozou, and ArianneB do have greater replay value because of the multiple paths that can be taken

I never said there wasn't any gameplay, I just made the point that the gameplay that is there is simplistic and unchallenging.
Especially in sharks latest games the point (yes point, not points) of failure (if there indeed is one) is easy to spot and easy to avoid, in particular if you have played his games before. The mutiple endings are in a 'pick the scene' style (which is identical to some of the japanese style that was mentioned in the OP), plus they require repetitive playing of the first part of the game (which remains identical).

The same qualities in Pusooy's games? Points of failure? Can't think of any. (perhaps the minigames in Bloodheart) Multiple endings? Can't think of any.

But I don't want to be taken for bashing on Sharks or Pusooys games, they are fine, some good. But if it comes to gameplay in my eyes they are lacking.
For example, School dreams 3 alone has kept me busy longer than all Sharks and Pusooys games combined, which I take as a testament that replay value is very important in making a truely good game.

I made a post a while ago with a developer request. I have zero skills when it comes to making games, but Ill tell you the ones that appeal to me the most are ones my wife and I can play together or with friends.

The sexy party,bliss, romantic dares ( monopoly style games) come instantly to mind but they are a bit pricey considering they are quite buggy and the the content is a bit weak and no one has delved into them as free to play yet. The concept for those is great and unlike flash games (no offense shark ^^) even the best of them dont really offer alot of replay value.

If the flash/graphic quality of some of shark's releases were to be combined with something like romantic dares, that would be a product that Id purchase I think, especially if they were inteligent and expandable. Even a simple spin the bottle with progressing levels of kink would be fantastic with a decent flash interface.

Pete

I posted a comment in the Robozou thread that is worth repeating here.

qbv8 mentioned that Robozou's thematic is "not his cup of tea", and I think he has a point. Robozou is THE game to showcase something that irks me: that some of the games with the best and most interesting gameplay (as opossed to just "click glorified 'next' button") also have thematics that are truly disgusting. Or the other way around. Its almost as if you had to choose one or the other, but not both.

Case in point, Robozou has a VERY adictive and original gameplay, but is about rape, incest, pedophilia, scat, or even all four things together. Glad it doesn't have tentacles in the mix...

Games like Ariane B, like Chaotic's VDG serie, like Shark's games, or like Leonizer's LOP series, are the proof that you CAN have good games about "non-disgusting" sex with good gameplay. But the vast majority of game developers have an obesssion with their fav fetishes, it seems

On the other side we have other games like Slave Maker (really adictive Princess Maker clone, but about sexual slaves), Sim Brothel (nice management game... of a brothel, among whose girls are some "gray area" girls and a extremely shocking clearly underage one), Boyish Sim (by the people that made Robozou, very adictive "fighting" game but with incest randomly thrown in the mix), a whole batch of "dancing queen" games (all made by the same people, all about abducting and gang-raping anime or videogame characters), whole batches of tentacle sex games, etc.

I beg you, developers. Those things are not truly needed. Also, the maret is so saturated of them, that if you make a good game with interesting gameplay that doesn't include underage incest zoophilic tentacle scat rape (or worse) it WILL stand out.

And you WANT it to stand out, right?

My compliments, Erana, you've got the point!

well said Erana!

Superb topic Tjommi and great discussion.

Live of a game developer is not easy - it's really difficult to satisfy everybody with a game.

I wounder if you all can describe some elements which, in your opinion, erotic flash game should have. This opinion could be a guide line for our future productions.

Very interesting topic Tjommi.

Very good points erana.

I totally agree about Robozu - the 'challenge' of the actual game is very good - the content/theme is distasteful.

The internet has opened up the availability of porn like no other subject. From the difficulty of actually getting any when it was hardcopy magazines, films or photos, now anyone with a PC can get anything.
When I say 'anything' - I mean anything, and here is where I think he myth exists.
The industry seems to think it has to be more outrageous, test the limits and that seems to spill over in to games as well.

I like this site because it seems to focus on 'normal' stuff and the vast majority of the members seem to agree.

I admire the game developer - they test their ability, and try to produce something to amuse and entertain, and maybe to enjoy the admiration of us mere mortals.

To a certain extent I agree with some of what the brain said.

I enjoy puzzles and tests, so I like a challenge.
Of course the quality of the 'sexual content' of a game can reduce my need for a challenge, but the ideal game would be a mental challenge with 'rewards'.

I say 'mental' because I am not an arcade style lover.

Leisure Suit Larry was a favourite of mine - the last of the originals Love for Sail I thought was really good - if it had more sexual action it would have been brilliant.

When they revived it a few years ago and put in all the silly games involving fast mouse action it was ruined.

I prefer Shark's game mechanics to Pusooy's mouse shaking.
I think I prefer Pusooy's graphics.

I really like Ariane, and what Chaotic is doing, but these games suffer from lack of movement - the gifs are too limited.

I suppose that what I would ideally like is Leisure Suit Larry's mental challenge of collecting items, finding and clicking on loads of spots, to score with loads of different women, but with the graphics quality of Nanny and Wendy, or better still Ariane, Crystal or Kelly .................

I'm not asking for much then ..................