Mortze's and my next game is called "Finding Miranda" and I'm getting to a point in the design of the game where there potentially, the player could choose which date they want to go on. I see two paths before me.
1) In a single play through, the player can go on both dates. (No real choice, less "agency")
2) The player chooses the date, but can go on only one in a play through. (More "agency," but you have to play multiple times to see everything.)

In general, people have liked the games I've made, but there's always feedback from some that they want more choice. The balance of choice, though, is that you need to replay the game and go through content you've already seen again in order to see the parts you missed the first time.

I'm looking for your opinions on this. If there are two different dates, is it better to have the option to choose which one you're going to do or to do both in the same game? If you choose, you'll miss the content of the date you didn't choose unless you play the game again. If you do both, you lose the option to choose, but don't need to repeat the early parts of the game to see everything.

I have opinions on which is better, but I'm interested in hearing what you folks think. As always, I reserve the right to ignore everything and go with what I want. But I'll at least listen and think about it. Both votes and text replies are useful.

Thanks,
Tlaero

From my pov, a skip feature like in ren'py (skipp all seen message) might be the best way to please everyone. But I'm sure this will be difficult to implement.

Anyway, I prefer to get one "short" game with multiple path/ends rathen than a long "one shot" kind of game.

ttant wrote:From my pov, a skip feature like in ren'py (skipp all seen message) might be the best way to please everyone. But I'm sure this will be difficult to implement.

Anyway, I prefer to get one "short" game with multiple path/ends rathen than a long "one shot" kind of game.

One of the biggest turn offs of LoP is having to play whole chunks of a game over and over again...

If it isn't possible to have a save game how about making the game in two parts? Give the player a code at the end of Part 1, like Shark does, to ensure players don't cheat.. Then have the option to choose the path at the beginning of Part 2, so the player only has to replay the absolute minimum in order to experience both endings.

I prefer games that give me choices rather than mostly linear stories with no options of deviating. The caveat, however, is that when you say "choosing dates" I do feel that these dates should have significant overlap in terms of the story. For example, a failure in date A might give us information on the right choices in date B. If this sort of overlap is completely missing the two (or more) dates might as well be different games. As an example, the early games from Chaotic spring to mind, where often you would choose location A or B and then the story would completely diverge (and sometimes even be inconsistent between path A and B..). Compare that to Goblinboys games, where every playthrough teaches the player about the characters and the consequences of your choices.

So yes, choices are good, but only if they are meaningful (and not just an excuse to give us more images). If you give players the right choices, even a mostly linear story can have tremendous replay value.

I always prefer choices, and since there is the possibility of save the game when you want... there is no problem.
Moreover to unlock the beautiful bonus scene, I already must play the game several times to gain all the achievements

My opinion won't matter. I'll have to render both dates anyway

Mortze wrote:My opinion won't matter. I'll have to render both dates anyway

Both? There will probably be 4. (-:

Tlaero

Definitely choice. However, I hate nothing more that getting to the end of the game (after several attempt and learning the characters personality) and realizing that I missed something; good-bye harem orgy scene. So, I breakdown and read a walk-through to discover I missed the one esoteric or random question in the middle of the game. Booooooo!
GtKC scoring was a great advance for preventing this. BEW is good too but, the permutations there get overwhelming for me. I like it's mechanic, however.

Feedback, saving and skipping throughout the game is greatly appreciated. If the player hasn't walked the "golden path" of a scene, let them know or at least a hint. Guarantee of "Just friends" ending that I've already reached 5 times before, I'd like to know I'm headed there, ASAP. It may be unrealistic but if I could tell the game my goals for this play through and am off, I'd like to know sooner than later.

A great plot is still fundamental. The more the player makes it happen as oppose to been told what happens, the better. But you know this, your games are awesome.

tlaero wrote:Mortze's and my next game is called "Finding Miranda" and I'm getting to a point in the design of the game where there potentially, the player could choose which date they want to go on. I see two paths before me.
1) In a single play through, the player can go on both dates. (No real choice, less "agency")
2) The player chooses the date, but can go on only one in a play through. (More "agency," but you have to play multiple times to see everything.)

Thanks,
Tlaero

Honestly, I prefer choice in a game IF it falls under the following conditions:
a) ability to save the game
b) If it's relatively early in the game (no more than 1/3 of the way) so I don't have to waste an hour getting to the same choice
c) There's an ability to skip to the choice.

I'm sure many of us replay games that have different endings...but they have multiple choice branches so there's a benefit to replaying to see all the possible endings. LoPGold does this well with their best games. Goblinboy did it with his games as well (save feature!). Having multiple outcomes is great...just not playing a long time to get to the same place you did to get to the choice.

Keep up the great work!

I voted for one playthrough.

Agency is the ability to have meaningfull influence on the world around you.

Two different dates leading to the same outcome does not increase agency.

It is even questionable if two different dates leading to two different outcomes increase agency. (your choice is pretty much forced in the second playthrough (so no influence at all))

tlaero wrote:

Mortze wrote:My opinion won't matter. I'll have to render both dates anyway

Both? There will probably be 4. (-: ...

Surprise, surprise!

Choices are good, but I don't like replaying content that I've already seen.

If we can have more choices without being forced to re-play parts that we've already played through to see the differing paths... then I guess that's the most ideal option

I think, if the distance (playtime or pics, scenes or something else countable) between the points where the player could choose from two or more options is not too big and there are some more, then it's not a big deal to play some of the stuff once or twice again.

Replaying content isn't too bad, why don't you just either:

A) Allow us to skip seen dialogue (as most japanese eroge/hentai games do)
B) Allow us to make a save file before the branching paths

Besides, your games already require replaying so it seems like a moot point. Either to maximise points in your earlier games with phreaky or branching paths of chivalrous/lewd in your Mortze games.