Redemption for Jessika (En, Sp, Fr, It, Ge)

[Mortze]

I think Tlaero summed up - really well - the pros and cons of adding or not more interactivity to our games, or any game.

You have to understand that any single more choice for the player we put into the game means more time writting the path branching, the consequent dialogues, the code to make it work, and time posing and rendering more story material.
And it resumes to that only: time.

Do we have infinite time? No. We have devoted (and potential new) players who want to enjoy our game. Some are willing to wait more, other aren't. I am a player of some games too. I like Pusooy's, I like Erogenesis' comics. And I struggle with impatience when they are making the product.
Would it be better if they spent more time on it to make it better or longer? Perhaps, but I'd have only one game or comic one a year instead of 2 or more per year.

And that's about it. The creators designing the game think and decide what timeline they want to have. For instance, Tlaero and I think we should try to make 2 games a year. Plus, I have my own project. So, from me, my goal would be about 3, maybe 4 releases a year.
Adding more content to any one of those projects will jeopardize the others. Time is physics too after all.
Since we aren't pros, we can't dedicate all of our time to it. Both Tlaero and I have a job (although I'm trying to quit mine to dedicate myself fully to this), meaning we can only dedicate spare time to the games.

Some people will say they want a perfect game each 3 years, but other will say they want a not-so-perfect game but every 8 months. So, in the end, it's up to us to define the timeline we want to invest ourselves to.

And I insist again on another point.
Interactivity is antagonist to a fully defined script. If I want to tell THIS story, and no other story, I have a very narrow path written for my character. I just can't have X paths defined because having that I wouldn't being telling THIS story but THIS, THAT, THAT OTHER ONE, and THIS OTHER. Multiple storys (sorry for the big letters, no anger here)
And the more different stories you tell the more you loose focus.

It's all about finding the right balance between having a good script, good dialogues, good characters, good graphics, good playability opposed to good time expectancy for release (like in a scale).
If you want to wait less for the game you'll have to sacrifice something from the other side. If you want to improve graphics for instance you'll have to sacrifice time, making the game take more time to be released. (and money too since graphics and money are also connected...).
And yeah, money is part of the equation too. This games cost money to the creators. Even if we only take into account that time is, indeed, money.

[azerukaze]

I totally understand Marc. Come on, Jessica's been his idol since the first time he saw her. If there's any complaint it should be because Marc didn't do worse. If I was him I would've insisted to sleep on the couch on night 1 even before Sarah's offer and then masturbate to the big picture. Stalk them when they went to the zoo on day 2, take pictures for research purposes. Insist to sleep on the couch again on night 3, sneak into her bedroom and take selfie with her while she's asleep and of course... masturbate. I would've reacted so badly I'm not even sure if there's going to be a night 4.

Jokes aside, the way Marc handled himself in the game is quite expected of a fan that had the attention of an idol. It would've been really weird if Marc suddenly says no to sex when he's actually crazy about her. You also need to consider that the in-game time span was less than a week, he didn't even have time to compute everything normally yet. The only thing he would think of every night would be, "Woohoo! Saw SeraB's tits", "Woohoo! I met Jessika!", "Woohoo! Got a blowjob from Jessika!", "Woohoo! Had sex with Jessika!". Right?

By the way, please don't take my suggestions on the game's interactivity negatively, it's one of the only ways I can think of to show my support. I would gladly help both of you script or render if I know how but sadly I don't.

Just keep doing what you guys do because it's awesome.

[caravaggio]

I read all this discussion really superficially, and I just wanted to add my feedback hoping it makes sense.
When i play such a game, made by "amateur" I totally understand the limits in terms of time, resources, technicalblabla and everything, so I'm fine with the limits with interactivity because every branch would include tons of extrawork probably, so, as far as I'm concerned I'm happy as long as there are some "flavour choices" with very minimum impact but that let's me play the character the way I want to, for example I was uncomfortable with some of Marc lines where he was in total adoration of jessika, but I could choose the more funnyguy lines and advance all the same, so for me that was perfect. Just little "aesthetic" choices that adds the illusion of actually having a different approach, a slightly different answer, a small different reaction (btw the expressivity of jessika was really a masterpiece, she almost looked real) all remaining inside the main path. In this game it was almost always possible to choose to say something that let me play Marc the way I wanted, on the other hand, in Pandora, for me that was the only problem with the game, being forced to just stutter in every situation in order to advance, for the rest i loved the demo.

[Mortze]

I read all this discussion really superficially, and I just wanted to add my feedback hoping it makes sense.
When i play such a game, made by "amateur" I totally understand the limits in terms of time, resources, technicalblabla and everything, so I'm fine with the limits with interactivity because every branch would include tons of extrawork probably, so, as far as I'm concerned I'm happy as long as there are some "flavour choices" with very minimum impact but that let's me play the character the way I want to, for example I was uncomfortable with some of Marc lines where he was in total adoration of jessika, but I could choose the more funnyguy lines and advance all the same, so for me that was perfect. Just little "aesthetic" choices that adds the illusion of actually having a different approach, a slightly different answer, a small different reaction (btw the expressivity of jessika was really a masterpiece, she almost looked real) all remaining inside the main path. In this game it was almost always possible to choose to say something that let me play Marc the way I wanted, on the other hand, in Pandora, for me that was the only problem with the game, being forced to just stutter in every situation in order to advance, for the rest i loved the demo.

Thanks for the compliments on Jessika's expressivity.
But I have to comment the other part. Let's take Pandora as an example.
Some of you guys criticise RfJ and Marc because he doesn't have lots of choices or because you'd behave diferently than him. What about Kean in Pandora? He is shy, virgin, unconfident, sweet, goodhearthed, and clumsy young man. That's it. It's a closed character as I call it. No interactivity could be done beyond that scope of personality. People would want Kean to have his way with more girls, but that would not be the Kean I designed. That would be what the player would want, and not Kean (ok, he might have wanted it but again, he is shy and unconfident).

That's what happends when you see a movie, read a book, play a video game even. The character is designed in a way where his personality is totally locked. Unless you play a full RPG but we won't compare Bioware games with what we are trying to accomplish here without much time and budget. Redemption for Jessika isn't Baldur's Gate. (And yet, in that awesome game dialogues are set in advance, you can't possibl say whatever you'd like).

So it is with Marc. Marc is a guy with his defined personality. Some of you might identify with him, others totally not. What a fun diversity we humans have!

That's why, in the beggining of Pandora I stated clearly what character you'd be playing.

But in RfJ Tlaero allows you some diversification on Marc's personality, either he being smart, fun, sweet, idiotic or lewd, or several combinations of that all. There's some diversity for those who like to immerse a bit of themselves a bit in the game. But, unlike many other games out there, Marc isn't void of personality. He is a hardcore fan of Mayehm, a professional at his job, fun and easygoing guy.
If we follow canon, Marc is even more defined as good hearthed, generous, caring and respectful.

These are stories written with a limited plot. Don't forget it. These are not full roleplaying games where, at the start, we ask you your name, ethnicity, sex, profession, personality traits.
Therefore, reactions and dialogues in the game are limited and closed acordingly.

[caravaggio]

No, no that wasn't my point, i get that I have to play as a defined character, and it's ok to play the nerd, but still, there is not just one way to respond as a shy nerd, I would have liked a little more variety in the response possibilities, still staying in the nerd path. It's just my feedback, i don't expect you to change the game just to make me happy, but I think I would have enjoyed the game a lot more if i just had different possibilities in the dialogues. There are some answers where i think "If I were him I could never say something like that", but I had to if I wanted to advance, and to me this kind of ruins the immersion.. so, if I just had the possibility to say it differently it would have been great, not expecting to have a change of consequences or branching or whatever, just having some degree of freedom while you move inside the nerd pattern.. (Even in Baldur's most of the time the dialogue could play just in two ways, but you had like 10 options to say the same thing in a different way, now, I'm not expecting this kind of freedom of course, but to me immersion is like that, even if I know the outcome won't change I want to choose to say something I would be comfortable saying while interpretating that character). Well, now it sounds like it was a big deal, but it wasn't really, I liked the demo but my complain is that generally I had this feeling of being uncomfortable playing the nerd in That way.

[Mortze]

No, no that wasn't my point, i get that I have to play as a defined character, and it's ok to play the nerd, but still, there is not just one way to respond as a shy nerd, I would have liked a little more variety in the response possibilities, still staying in the nerd path. It's just my feedback, i don't expect you to change the game just to make me happy, but I think I would have enjoyed the game a lot more if i just had different possibilities in the dialogues. There are some answers where i think "If I were him I could never say something like that", but I had to if I wanted to advance, and to me this kind of ruins the immersion.. so, if I just had the possibility to say it differently it would have been great, not expecting to have a change of consequences or branching or whatever, just having some degree of freedom while you move inside the nerd pattern.. (Even in Baldur's most of the time the dialogue could play just in two ways, but you had like 10 options to say the same thing in a different way, now, I'm not expecting this kind of freedom of course, but to me immersion is like that, even if I know the outcome won't change I want to choose to say something I would be comfortable saying while interpretating that character). Well, now it sounds like it was a big deal, but it wasn't really, I liked the demo but my complain is that generally I had this feeling of being uncomfortable playing the nerd in That way.

You do realise that any "variant" piece of dialogue that would have helped you get imersed in the game could have the contrary effect on someone else? Everyone is diferent and has ways to react diferently to every life "challenges". What an herculean work it would be to try and find out a piece of dialogue or action choice that would fit into the majority of human response.
I found myself playing several times Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, VtM: Bloodlines, Mass Effect, and always found dialogues and choices that made me think "Neither I, or my character would choose that, despite the multiple options the game gives me". It's just impossible, save for Impro or Tabletop RPG to allow a player to fully feel immersed. Sometimes it happen but to just a few.
Please do not take me wrong, or get offended, I don't want to sound paternalist, but the characters in the game are Jessika and Marc, and you play as Marc. Not as Caravaggio. (which was an inspiration of the chiaroscuro technique that I much love in classical painting

[caravaggio]

Don't worry, as I feared I made it sound bigger than I wanted to.. I was thinking to something similar to what was done in RfJ, you play Marc who has preset characteristics, but you have a tiny amount of freedom meaning that many times you can say the same thing in three different ways, I would have liked to see something like that implemented in Pandora, not one answer, but two or three to choose from to give some flavour to the way you were interpretating the character.

[Mortze]

Don't worry, as I feared I made it sound bigger than I wanted to.. I was thinking to something similar to what was done in RfJ, you play Marc who has preset characteristics, but you have a tiny amount of freedom meaning that many times you can say the same thing in three different ways, I would have liked to see something like that implemented in Pandora, not one answer, but two or three to choose from to give some flavour to the way you were interpretating the character.

I understand what you say. No worries.
But I think it is kind of a waste to have 3 dialogue options that will lead to the exact same effect regarding the game evolution (like points). I think some people might even find it frustrating. We really can't please everyone

[jk103]

So it is with Marc. Marc is a guy with his defined personality. Some of you might identify with him, others totally not. What a fun diversity we humans have!

See, I think this is part of the issue. There are Player-Characters who are blank slates, vessels for the player to impose their own ideas into, and there are Player-Characters that are strictly defined with clear boundaries and ideas. Marc is sort of stuck inbetween. I mean, you say he has a defined personality, but when I'm playing I'm actually the one putting words into his mouth, which makes him feel more like a blank-slate type of person. If you want Marc to be a defined character, he needs to have a defined character arc. A character who doesn't grow and change over the coarse of a story is a prop, not a character at all. If you want Marc to be a blank slate, than you need to give the player more of a voice and more of a chance to interact directly with the story. We're told that Marc is obsessed with Jessika, even before the events of the game, instead of being allowed to explore it ourselves.

And I'm repeating myself, but I KNOW that I'm coming across as an asshole when I write these posts, and I feel like I should reiterate that I'm being overly critical only because I enjoyed the game overall, and I can tell how much care and effort Tlaero and Mortze put into these games. I just think they could be better, with a little more understanding of how gameplay decisions influence narrative.

[nerio]

Thanks, folks. I'm glad to hear that some men connected with Marc. I'm not sure if I should read something into the fact that the people who were so down on him haven't suggested anything he should have done differently. Maybe just RfJ fatigue.

Tlaero

Loved the game!

One thing that interests me about this discussion is the level at which people are putting themselves in Marc's situation. I, honestly, found it a bit uncomfortable - not because of Sarah's naked hostility (forgive the pun), but because I had not yet connected with Syliva. I just didn't feel that I (as Marc) was that close to her to be invited into that situation... she was obviously planning something along those lines beforehand so it seemed that Sarah was acting out trying to entrap Marc as an asshole, but Syliva was also using him in a way that I didn't feel close enough to her not to resent. It was a factor of coming at it cold. The second or third time I played it was not uncomfortable at all, because Marc was her close friend at that point. So the first time through when I offered to leave - I was genuinely serious because it didn't feel right to be there.

You should both be pround that you wrote and illustrated a character who spoke to so many people in such a way that they could relate to the point of reacting to the situation themselves, rather than being told "that's how you reacted".

[nerio]

Don't worry, as I feared I made it sound bigger than I wanted to.. I was thinking to something similar to what was done in RfJ, you play Marc who has preset characteristics, but you have a tiny amount of freedom meaning that many times you can say the same thing in three different ways, I would have liked to see something like that implemented in Pandora, not one answer, but two or three to choose from to give some flavour to the way you were interpretating the character.

I understand what you say. No worries.
But I think it is kind of a waste to have 3 dialogue options that will lead to the exact same effect regarding the game evolution (like points). I think some people might even find it frustrating. We really can't please everyone

As an aside on this point, there were points that didn't really seem to affect anything, like "nice" versus "funny". I played through this excellent game a few times trying different responses (after playing it naturally) and I don't recall anything standing out as different. Were there differences? Aside from "lewd", of course.

[Mortze]

As an aside on this point, there were points that didn't really seem to affect anything, like "nice" versus "funny". I played through this excellent game a few times trying different responses (after playing it naturally) and I don't recall anything standing out as different. Were there differences? Aside from "lewd", of course.

Better Tlaero or someone who "studied" the game fully to understand it.
But I think that to progress Marc has to have a certain ammount combination of nice, lewd, funny, etc. So getting a "nice" point here, instead of a "funny" one is taken into account, strategically speaking, even if you can get the lost "nice" or "funny" points later on.

[jardel77]

Hi Tlaero and Mortze,

Once again congratulations on the game and for me you 2 are the best game creators of this genre at the moment.

I like that the story makes sense with your previous one and the way it envolves the player is actually really good.

I found a bit strange the mysticall and powerfull theme in the first game but now it actually makes sense and it's looking really good and I'm looking forward for your next game.

As for the character I think he's good and I really like it that in every game (even if they are in the same universe) every male character is different and that is good, One thing that I would probably like to see is one character being able to seduce any of the previous main characters to add some extra thrill to it but I understand that not everyone would like this and the games are looking great the way they are.

As for the branches I had discussed this with Mortze before and of course it would be better but if you think about an open world game you wouldn'd even know where to go to find something because as it offers unlimited new options it would also offer unlimited failed or lack of options too and that would be wasting time and losing focus of the game... It's a game and every game is different in the same universe which is good and gives that sensation.

Again, I like the game so much that for me as more branches the better but again and like Mortze said I would like to play 2/3 games of these a year and not just 1 or not even that,

Keep up with the great work guys =)

[tlaero]

Redemption for Jessika isn't Baldur's Gate.

I've totally got to work, "Go for the eyes, Boo. Go for the eyes!" in somewhere. (-:

Tlaero

[tlaero]

but because I had not yet connected with Syliva. I just didn't feel that I (as Marc) was that close to her to be invited into that situation... she was obviously planning something along those lines beforehand so it seemed that Sarah was acting out trying to entrap Marc as an asshole, but Syliva was also using him in a way that I didn't feel close enough to her not to resent.

Actually, no. Sylvia wasn't planning anything of the sort. She thought Marc was going to chat with Sarah for a little while, Sarah would see that he was a good guy, and that would be that. She was surprised when Sarah showed up in that outfit and she was definitely surprised when Sarah started kissing her on the couch.

Tlaero