Living with Temptation (LOP Gold)

[stcro1]

sounds really interesting,especially the part that we will choose whether we cheated and swinged or not,i have no doubt that i will love lwt2
building relationship and temptation with lisa was the best part of the first game,maybe even of any game of this type in my opinion so i'm really curious how will it be done in lwt2
i just hope it won't be short given that you said that playthrough will take less time

[LeopoldWilliamReynolds]

building relationship and temptation with lisa was the best part of the first game

Agree wholeheartedly. The best part about LwT was that it was a gradual foray into giving into temptation (if you went that route and let's be honest, with a hottie like Lisa we all did). We started small, became more friendly, flirted, and eventually worked our way up to an affair. I can't wait to see how the game works in the sequel, but I must say that if it is anything like the first in that the relationships between the characters are built on and its paced well, I'm sure we'll all love it.

Also, it might just be the case that iksanabot is a great writer. I believe Seducing the Throne was his (hers?) as well, and I really liked where that one went.

[TheGreatJoeGargery]

Hi all.
I can not really answer any specific questions here, though I appreciate the interest in LWT2 and the concerns. To be honest, I am concerned too. Scared shitless, actually, of how you guys will like LWT2. But I am hoping the changes to game play, shifting away from stat building will not ruin the game. The reason I went that way is because at the end of LWT Justin is supposed to have basically maxed his stats, so I didn't want you to have to start over. You start wth both Lisa and Tracy hot for you, and choose whether you cheated or swung in the first game. If you choose that you did not cheat or swing then it assumes the ending you got was fucking Tracy after the dinner party.

I guess the lack of stat grinding will make single play throughs take less time, but there is a lot of content specific to choices, so I think you will want to play it through many times to see everything. I am sure that for some people the expectations are so high they will be disappointed no matter what, but I am hoping the variety of scenes, and the creativity behind them will be enough to satisfy most of you. I am giving no hints of scenes, because that would only lessen the impact they have when you finally discover them.

Anyway, the game is not coded yet so some aspects of game play will change as Leo develops it. We will play test the shit out of it to mske sure it doesn't feel too empty without the stat building.

I'm texting this post from an airport so please forgive any typos.

iksanabot

I'm actually in favor of you moving away from stat grinding and experimenting with other formats. I do have to agree with the last two posters though, the stat grinding game mechanic did integrate well into your story. You excel at building tension with your storytelling and the need to build stats to unlock content had you furiously building those stats to progress. At the same time I would love to see a move away from that and into another mechanic that would do the same thing.

I can't wait to see how the respect mechanic will work. I'm not sure if respect is purely through dialogue choices or if there will be minigames involved (I keep envisioning a Tony Hawk Pro Skater balancing mechanic every time I see the "chicken fight" in the pool against Lisa and her boyfriend in the first game). The change in mechanic does show a willingness to move into new territory and expand on what you've already created instead of just trying to repeat what you've already done. To me that's already a good sign.

[MalleckM]

Hi all.
I can not really answer any specific questions here, though I appreciate the interest in LWT2 and the concerns. To be honest, I am concerned too. Scared shitless, actually, of how you guys will like LWT2. But I am hoping the changes to game play, shifting away from stat building will not ruin the game. The reason I went that way is because at the end of LWT Justin is supposed to have basically maxed his stats, so I didn't want you to have to start over. You start wth both Lisa and Tracy hot for you, and choose whether you cheated or swung in the first game. If you choose that you did not cheat or swing then it assumes the ending you got was fucking Tracy after the dinner party.

I guess the lack of stat grinding will make single play throughs take less time, but there is a lot of content specific to choices, so I think you will want to play it through many times to see everything. I am sure that for some people the expectations are so high they will be disappointed no matter what, but I am hoping the variety of scenes, and the creativity behind them will be enough to satisfy most of you. I am giving no hints of scenes, because that would only lessen the impact they have when you finally discover them.

Anyway, the game is not coded yet so some aspects of game play will change as Leo develops it. We will play test the shit out of it to mske sure it doesn't feel too empty without the stat building.

I'm texting this post from an airport so please forgive any typos.

iksanabot

A good question is - why do you delay release for so long? Please, don't tell that rendering takes time. This is not an answer. Most of the game is rather disappointed (except Alchemist). I hope you won't ruin this one.

[saolo996]

A good question is - why do you delay release for so long? Please, don't tell that rendering takes time. This is not an answer. Most of the game is rather disappointed (except Alchemist). I hope you won't ruin this one.

I think it's just matter of business planning: they released Ele2, then PassionHoldEm and Room Mates, plus a couple of free games...
There were high expectations both on Ele2 and LWT2, it's a way to optimize the profits and to schedule the work, don't you think?

Sincerly I prefer to wait a little to have a good game, rather to have it too soon and being disappointed.

[vkalvkal]

Hi all.
I can not really answer any specific questions here, though I appreciate the interest in LWT2 and the concerns. To be honest, I am concerned too. Scared shitless, actually, of how you guys will like LWT2. But I am hoping the changes to game play, shifting away from stat building will not ruin the game. The reason I went that way is because at the end of LWT Justin is supposed to have basically maxed his stats, so I didn't want you to have to start over. You start wth both Lisa and Tracy hot for you, and choose whether you cheated or swung in the first game. If you choose that you did not cheat or swing then it assumes the ending you got was fucking Tracy after the dinner party.

I guess the lack of stat grinding will make single play throughs take less time, but there is a lot of content specific to choices, so I think you will want to play it through many times to see everything. I am sure that for some people the expectations are so high they will be disappointed no matter what, but I am hoping the variety of scenes, and the creativity behind them will be enough to satisfy most of you. I am giving no hints of scenes, because that would only lessen the impact they have when you finally discover them.

Anyway, the game is not coded yet so some aspects of game play will change as Leo develops it. We will play test the shit out of it to mske sure it doesn't feel too empty without the stat building.

I'm texting this post from an airport so please forgive any typos.

iksanabot

Amen to the bolded part.

I'm looking forward to it. Take your time and don't rush things, guys.

[MalleckM]

A good question is - why do you delay release for so long? Please, don't tell that rendering takes time. This is not an answer. Most of the game is rather disappointed (except Alchemist). I hope you won't ruin this one.

I think it's just matter of business planning: they released Ele2, then PassionHoldEm and Room Mates, plus a couple of free games...
There were high expectations both on Ele2 and LWT2, it's a way to optimize the profits and to schedule the work, don't you think?

Sincerly I prefer to wait a little to have a good game, rather to have it too soon and being disappointed.

Those who were fans of Eleonor waited 1 year or even more. What have they got? Good game? Boring, not interesting mechanic. And what worked in the first game didn't work in the second.
The same might be with LWT2.

Probably yes, you are right, It is business. But right now business is everywhere. So at least they could give what people ask.

[TheGreatJoeGargery]

Those who were fans of Eleonor waited 1 year or even more. What have they got? Good game? Boring, not interesting mechanic. And what worked in the first game didn't work in the second.
The same might be with LWT2.

Probably yes, you are right, It is business. But right now business is everywhere. So at least they could give what people ask.

I think what might be helpful is if you talk about what you liked about LWT and what it had that the other games you played didn't have. It could result in more games being made with the things that you like. If that happens then you might not have to wait so long for the release of a game that you like.

[OzyOzyOzy]

Thanks for the answers. In general I'm not worried about the fact that it could be a bad game, because it would not of course, but about the fact that there's could be less options than the previous one, considering that this time the game should be even bigger, and so we would have to wait for another expansion - I'm still hoping they will make one where you met Lisa's family and her mother is a really good looking woman - in late 2017 at best in order to have some things added.

The fact that there would be many things to do and re-do in every run is Ok, I guess, but I feel like it's less than it should have been. Then again, you're not me and you have a different taste, so it's completely normal that it would not be like i expected it.

Also, a little hope of mine is that we could get also an ending that triggers for example if Tracy and Lisa find you cheating on them with one of the other two women, or even both of them; so in the end they leave Justin, become a lesbian couple and take the custody of Charlie. Does anyone else hope this as well? I mean, Justin surely would deserve it.

[iksanabot]

I am glad so many people like the build up in lwt because it as something I focused on. I will focus on it again in other games, and I did try to create some build up in lwt2. However, it can't be the same because it is a sequal, so both Lisa and Tracy are already maximally attracted to Justin. So their scenes (and there are quite a few of them) are focused on sexy situations and/or kinky acts. The build up happens with the other to female characters. Justin can build their interest in him, and he can learn their secret desires, turn-ons, and sins.

The game has about as many images as the expanded lwt, and I left openings for an expansion as well if you guys like it enough. So there is lots of content, but like i said before, it probably wont take as long to do one playthrough as lwt did. Sorry if that disappoints you - it is still a large game. I think you will enjoy you 5th, 6th, and 7th playthroughs as much as your first.

Regarding the delay: I have already said i am not in charge of that. It is a large game that is complicated to code. That is all I know.

On my phone again, killing time in a free-wifi coffeeshop in a small town in Canada. I will have limitted internet for a couple more weeks. Can't wait for the first alpha testing though...

[TheGreatJoeGargery]

The game has about as many images as the expanded lwt, and I left openings for an expansion as well if you guys like it enough. So there is lots of content, but like i said before, it probably wont take as long to do one playthrough as lwt did. Sorry if that disappoints you - it is still a large game. I think you will enjoy you 5th, 6th, and 7th playthroughs as much as your first.

I actually see the shorter playthrough time as a positive. I found the original lwt to be a bit long to be multiple playthrough friendly. After finishing a game of the expanded lwt I couldn't imagine immediately starting again to try something new.

[Monkey Boy]

Wow... the latest update about this game's sequel on the LOP Blog has actually gotten me hyped up. LOP games are generally light on the MMF "Devil's" Threesome scenes, and it looks like there are two different ones pictured in the blog post. Going to have to resub to LOP Gold when the new game comes out. Thanks to the team for throwing those of us in the minority a bone this time around!

[TheGreatJoeGargery]

Wow... the latest update about this game's sequel on the LOP Blog has actually gotten me hyped up. LOP games are generally light on the MMF "Devil's" Threesome scenes, and it looks lie there are two different ones pictured in the blog post. Going to have to resub to LOP Gold when the new game comes out. Thanks to the team for throwing those of us in the minority a bone this time around!

I agree completely. I find iksanabot seems to understand the "anatomy of a fantasy" very well. Even if it's something he doesn't particularly have an interest in he seems to perfectly isolate what the focus of a particular fantasy is and how to get the appropriate buildup and payoff for it. For the most part you usually have to wait until a writer has the same fantasy as you and that writer makes a story about it, which can be frustrating if your particular fantasies fall outside the norm. I'm not sure if he consciously does this in his writing or if he just has an intuitive talent for it.

[TheGreatJoeGargery]

As for as expanding the first game, I would love to, but I doubt it is going to happen. The first game is already huge. I've had many of the ideas that others have suggested here, and I agree there is so much more that could be put into that game, but there are also things about that game that I want to change, and it may be better to start from scratch.

This is a statement that has intrigued me for some time. I've always thought about that would look like, the complete deconstruction of the game and building it up again from scratch, or use the lessons learned from the previous game to make a completely new game with new characters but exploring the same themes as the previous game. Living With Temptation has influenced a lot of other games, most notably Working Man by ICE and Infidel/Unfaithful by Zigmut who took elements from Living With Temptation and went their own way with them. There was so much in the game that there were possibilities that were briefly touched on and not explored due to focusing on other areas. Also there was the radical shift in the game after the Wife Gone Wilder expansion. Completely new fantasies were explored beyond the seduce the babysitter fantasy originally presented. There were subtle (and not so subtle) hints at these other fantasies in the original game. Sometimes I think of what the game would look like if the direction the game took in Wife Gone Wilder, which greatly increased the games popularity, was part of the original concept of the game.

Since in a few weeks we'll probably all be talking about Living With Temptation 2 and I probably won't get a chance to talk about this again, here are a few of my ideas of a "re-edit". Mostly it consists of taking what was in the "Wife Gone Wilder" expansion and building that into the game from the start. I'm not really hoping that the game will get reworked and what I have presented here would be an extremely ambitious and huge game (it is probably closer to two or three separate games), but it is just pretty much a thought experiment on the game. What I'd like is for people who are inspired by the game to take a closer look at the elements that made the game so good and perhaps combine them with their own ideas (like ICE and Zigmut did) to make even more amazing games.

Tracey's Exhibitionism
To be honest, Tracey is a far more interesting character than Lisa after the WIfe Gone Wilder expansion. Ultimately her story line opens up in the expansion where you rekindle your relationship by exploring her fantasy of exhibitionism. I wish this could have been explored earlier in the game and built upon slowly, like perhaps being out on the town with Tracey and notice someone is watching and encouraging her to do something to "give him a show" and built up from there. Going to the cabin on the weekend may be removed. When the game was launched the focus was on Lisa and having Tracey go to the cabin with the baby was a good way to get both her and the baby out of the way so you could have one on one time with Lisa. With romancing Tracey an option, that weekend time could be better spent with one on one time with Tracey while Lisa looks after the baby. You're already at home all day with Lisa and have alone time with her while the baby is napping.

Probably the best way to do this is to arrange "Date nights" between you and Tracey. There could be a conversation in the game where you and Tracey talk about not having that spark in your relationship and decide together to go out on dates once a week since you have a live in babysitter to take care of your child at home. There could start off being light teasing, where Tracey may joke with Justin that he's staring at the hostess or Tracey may comment that they young waiter is really hot and have the scene progress for there, with each successive date getting raunchier.

In the game Tracey has a lot of implied power in the relationship. She has a very good job and it seems that she is the primary breadwinner. She's assertive in that you can't influence her to do something she is hesitant to do. She also becomes demanding at times and puts down ultimatums (such as sending Justin to go get her dildo while Derek is watching them at the end, and at the sex club when you pretty much have to sit there and watch her or she'll run off with someone else). Tracey's story line has the opportunity to be a "be careful what you wish for" story line, where Justin could find himself participating a lot in their fantasies when they at first start exploring them in the game but then find himself being relegated to observing the action as the game progresses and being forced to accept that role due to the power imbalance of the relationship. Again, this was touched on a little with a lot of the sex club endings but it would be nice to see the consequences in game. Of course this would a single track of the Tracey relationship, and only done if you make some wrong choices.

Also if Justin decides to explore the Lisa route in the game, there could be a subplot where you could find out Tracey is also cheating where clues are available to be found around the house much like in the game

Working Man by Ice

. It would probably be best to make this a consequence of focusing too much on what you want and not being as attentive towards Tracey as you should be. It also reinforces that the characters in this game have their own wants and needs. Tracey may be just as unhappy with the lack of "spark" in the relationship as you and may, like the main character, look for other ways to rekindle that spark if the main character is unwilling or has their attention focused in other areas. This could be done instead of a situation that would normally just end with a bad ending.

Justin's Swinging Fantasy
While Tracey explores her exhibitionism, she also indulges the main character's swinger fantasy. Again, this could be started earlier in the game and built upon slowly. Perhaps Tracey and the main character start by going out and pretending they're not together. Tracey may sit at a bar with Justin sitting at a booth nearby watching, with the intent of Tracey being hit on by some man and the player coming in, pretending to be a stranger, and pretending to seduce Tracey where she leaves with him instead of the stranger who was trying to pick her up. The game could escalate as the game progresses. Perhaps this becomes routine, the couple gets complacent and then something unexpected happens. Perhaps they decide to do another activity (such as create a dating profile for Tracey and have her go out on dates). Either way this could slowly be built up into swinging (and again, Tracey's power in the relationship could complicate matters).

Start with the Vegas Trip
Tracey and Justin's fantasies are basically introduced on the Vegas Trip late in the original, expanded game. This is a logical way to proceed with introducing these fantasies given that they are far away from home and feel that they will not have to experience the consequences of their actions due to nobody knowing them. Plus they are on vacation and the tendency when on vacation is to drink a lot which ends up lowering their inhibitions. What may be a good idea is to start the game in Vegas a playable intro. They could be in "pre-baby" mode and exploring their fantasies. The fantasy of the swinging and voyeurism could be touched upon here and first introduced. However shortly after this trip Tracey becomes pregnant so your sex lives take a hit and the game officially starts after she has the baby. The player is left wondering where exploring their fantasies would have led after the Vegas trip if Tracey didn't become pregnant shortly after. If you really want to be clever, redesign the Tracey model for this scene, making her look younger by her being more slender and changing her hair to something less professional and younger looking. This way the player experiences Tracey when she was wild, instead of it being described to them in the intro. The scene may have to be expanded upon as you also have to introduce Tracy and the protagonist in this scene as well, so some more dialogue scenes may be necessary. Then the player will have a vested interest in getting Tracey back to her wild and inhibited self again after the baby is born, since the player has already gotten a taste of what that would be like in the intro.

Lisa's Fantasies
The flip side of this is Lisa. The player can have the option of trying to rekindle their relationship with Tracey or recapture that feeling of excitement with Lisa. What you could do is use Lisa's body model and hairstyle for Tracey in the Vegas opening as part of Tracey's younger redesign, to reinforce to the player that Lisa represents Tracey when she was younger and more wild. Lisa, like Tracey, is a bit of an exhibitionist. She likes to dress sexy and be watched. You could explore other fantasies with her than you do with Tracey. Her friend Sandy and her boyfriend Derek could play larger roles in this version of the game (giving variety to the players). If you just want to focus on Lisa, you could focus on her exhibitionism much like you would with Lisa in the original game and have it culminate to the sex scene in the bar like normal. Sandy could also enlist your help to try to get Lisa to experiment with her. It could be an expansion of what happened at the pool in the original game, where Sandy, recognizing Lisa's attraction to you, uses that by creating games where if you win, you get to watch Sandy and Lisa do things together (at first make out, but later it gets more intense). The next time Sandy is over you guys may play Truth and Dare, and the games could get more intense over time. This could end in an eventual threesome. Derek could also be more involved. Lisa may ask for your advice on her relationship with Derek which could open up opportunities, or Derek may spend more time around the house and the player may talk with him more, creating a friendship. Perhaps it is Derek who asks Justin for advice, as from Derek's perspective Justin landed someone as hot as Tracey, so he must know what he's doing. Derek could them play into Tracey and Justin's fantasies, perhaps watching them in a more official capacity by being invited by Justin or Tracey (instead of just being creepy and watching from the bushes at the end).

With Lisa you have the opportunity to explore being a little more in control of the relationship that you are with Tracey. You are technically Lisa's boss and you also have the disposable income to buy her stuff (whereby managing what you spend on Lisa becomes more of a subplot, as before Tracey would notice if you spent too much). Derek can also be manipulated due to his lust for Tracey, or look up to Justin for being able to get someone as hot as Tracey. I'm sure a much better writer than me can think of many opportunities that would be exploitable by Justin in that situation.

The Sex Club
Like in the original expanded game, the sex club could be triggered in the Vegas scene. However by moving the Vegas scene to the start of the game you could have the club make a much more active presence in the entire game. Perhaps there is a character you can talk to and say the right things to to trigger this during the opening Vegas trip. Someone could perhaps see how wild Justin and Tracey are and speak with the couple about joining their exclusive club that has a chapter in their area, giving them a card during the trip. The card is then lost until either Tracey or Justin go through their suitcases and it falls out. They realize they completely forgot about it, especially after Tracey got pregnant. There could be an email address on the card which the couple looks at and exchanges conversations with someone at the other end. This could initiate the swinging plot line, where the club starts an initiation process. They start sending them packages (with outfits, toys and such) and instructions to help Justin and Tracey to explore, to see if this is really for them. The tests will test the resolve of Tracey and Justin, to see if they are really capable of handling their partners being with someone else or if the jealousy would be too much for them. This could culminate in Justin and Tracey going on a double date with another couple also going through the initiation process to see what happens.

Eventually when all the challenges have been completed, Justin and Tracey would have the option of actually visiting the club. I always imagined the club to be more of a secret society thing, the one where everyone wears masks. That's just personal preference though. The thing is, after the "initiation" process Justin and Tracey are already ready for a full on swing experience so they can really enjoy the club, already knowing they are confident enough in their relationship to know that they can enjoy other people and still love each other. It opens up a lot more opportunities when they actually get to the club.

Statistics
The last thing I'd change, and this is just a personal preference, is get rid of statistics. I always hate how in games when you have to grind out statistics, you always start very low and over the course of 30 to 40 days you can be massively smarter, sexier and more fit. You really wouldn't be able to make massive changes over that short of a period of time. Although I haven't played Living With Temptation 2, the "Respect" mechanic sounds like a good way to go, where the amount of respect you have in the household by the decisions you make and challenges you complete influences what you can do. You could also have multiple categories, like "Respect", "Lust" and "Affection" and combinations of these three effect what options are available at any given time. There could also be questions asked during the opening when talking to another character could also fill out your statistics. So if you are talking to a character at a bar and he asks you "what were you like in high school", you could have a couple of responses such as "I played football" which is more of an athletic character, or "I was in the chess club" which is more of an intelligent character, which may open up opportunities later in the game.

[OzyOzyOzy]

I don't know Joe, it makes sense but some things are just too, let's say, "forced", like the parallel between Tracy and Lisa. And also, all those mechanics could become too complicated for such a short span of game time (unless the time in the game changes from 40 days to an entire Summer and some more days).

The thing is, I've never liked how Tracy becomes "lustful" in like, a second if you do certain things. Like in the "true ending" by the pool, one of Justin's lines is "I don't like what's gotten into you", that's because it happens all of a sudden. To me this is a game about unsatisfied people making their own decisions about their lives, and the consequences they'll face for doing so. Justin is certainly not a good man, but the game makes you say "Can you blame him?". Lisa is not a home wrecker, as she too has her own feelings and thoughts about the situation event; Tracy has a "wild" side hidden into her, but it's far too hidden, so it results forced. It's better for the game to concentrate on them in my opinion.

Now we are all waiting for this second chapter. The only thing I want to say before its release is that what thrilled me the most was the "double cheating" possibility, and the consequences for this action: what happens when Lisa finds out that the cousin's wife or her friend are taking Justin all by themselves? This is a more interesting option for me.