Seduce Me

[tlaero]

Just remember that anecdotes don't make the rule. Here's a counter one. For the last decade or so, Apple has had a really successful run. But their recent products weren't made with focus groups and opinion gathering sneak previews. In fact, for the most part, even the people working on them weren't even allowed to know about more than their particular components. When you use an iPod, iPhone, or iPad, you're using the product Steve Jobs, and Steve Jobs alone, wanted. Love i-devices or hate them, you'll have a hard time convincing anyone that they haven't been successful.

And then the counter-counter anecdote. Microsoft is the undisputed master of focus groups and customer feedback. They've got that stuff down to a science. But all the user preference data in the world hasn't helped them compete against Steve Jobs' music player, Steve Jobs' phone, and Steve Jobs' tablet.

Now Steve Jobs was an exceptional human being, but Apple's recent success came from him making products he wanted to use, not ones people told him they wanted to use.

There's a relevant Henry Ford quote too, but it's slipped my mind and my wrists are hurting, so I'm going to wrap this up. Especially in light of the negative feedback here, I hope the Seduce Me developers made the game they wanted to make. I know what they're going through.

Tlaero

[SYH]

There's a relevant Henry Ford quote too

You can have it in any color you want so long as it's black?

[kessie8yl]

There's a relevant Henry Ford quote too

You can have it in any color you want so long as it's black?

Well this thread reminds me of a quote from "Yes, Prime Minister" which goes approximately like this:

'The Times is read by people who run the country
The Financial Times is read by people who own the country
The Daily Telegraph is read by the wives of the people who run the country
The Daily Mail is read by people who wish they ran the country
The Guardian is read by people who long for how the country used to be run
The Daily Mirror is read by people who wish the unions ran the country
The Sun is read by people who don't care who runs the country - as long as she's got big tits'

There's a youtube clip of the original somewhere if anyone wants the exact quote...

[fleet]

Regarding "the Sun", I'm not a Brit, and have never been there, but even in the central USA I've heard of Page 3 girls.

Sorry for continuing the off topic comments. I'll behave now.

[outrider9]

Now Steve Jobs was an exceptional human being

He was an exceptional entrepreneur, but human being... I haven't had the pleasure to know him personally, and I can't come to the same conclusion judging by his deeds.

[outrider9]

if you're doing games just for fun that sounds really great, if you're doing games as business, unless you're very lucky and gifted, creating something really new and that "everybody likes" (how many times this happens?) , that seems a quick formula to go bankrupt in a short time...

I think it's impossible to make something "everybody likes". So when it comes to a game (or book, or piece of music, etc.) I think the "scratch your own itch" motto is key. I can't imagine people enjoying a game that its makers hated before it was even finished.

[arminvb]

if you're doing games just for fun that sounds really great, if you're doing games as business, unless you're very lucky and gifted, creating something really new and that "everybody likes" (how many times this happens?) , that seems a quick formula to go bankrupt in a short time...

I think it's impossible to make something "everybody likes". So when it comes to a game (or book, or piece of music, etc.) I think the "scratch your own itch" motto is key. I can't imagine people enjoying a game that its makers hated before it was even finished.

of course it's impossible, be it games, movies or something else, you can never please everyone no matter how hard you try it
i guess my point was not well interpreted, what i mean was, unless you're making games just for fun, if every person or game studio out there, started making the games they really wanted to do (experimenting and creating new genres, which is wonderful thing of course!) instead of making the games people "want", and what sells these days, they'll go quickly bankrupt or never will have the chance to get financing from any investor/publisher at first place (unless, as i said previously, they're very lucky and gifted and create a new hit). Minecraft anyone? how many "minecraft style projects" out there? my point...

just look at top 10 selling games of 2012, all 10 are sequels, it's disgusting but unfortunately that's the state of game market for a very long time, but like everything it all goes around the money.

I can't imagine people enjoying a game that its makers hated before it was even finished.

i'll not use the word hate, but i'm sure most of the guys that work on game industry will jump out at first chance they got to create a new little studio where they can make their "own games" the ones they really want to do, not what the producer/publisher or lead designer told them to do.

i'll finish my comments here, don't want to go off-topic, this thread is about seduce me, not game dev industry

[tlaero]

The quote I was looking for was, "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses."

Tlaero

[redle]

First off, having a brilliant idea and developing it into a great end-product are not one and the same thing. Look at the thousands of different forums out there. Some are easy to navigate, read, find what interests you. Others bog you down in frustration to the point where one can't even figure out how to make a post. Yet all of the stem from the same idea (place on the web for random people to gather and talk about 'x').

Games are no different. There is a concept. Choices made how to get there. Technology, staffing, funding, timelines, differing opinions, on and on... Some things don't pan out. Just like with movies (which was used as a comparison), sometimes the makers realize it's a flop, but the cost to change it isn't worth it. Sometimes you simply cut your losses and release it and take whatever you can get. Granted, there are also times it is thought that something great has been made when it hasn't.

Testing and focus groups have their place, but they don't tell you how to fix anything. At best they point out where things are wrong. A new plan needs to be created and implemented. The new plan can be better, just as bad, or worse than the original. Test again and find out everything is back where it started.

I appreciate those that try.

Bottom line is, "Sometimes you win. Sometimes you lose. Sometimes it rains."

[AngryH]

The quote I was looking for was, "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses."

Tlaero

Yeah, if they are called "visionaries", there's a reason. It's not about what they want, or what people want, but what they think people will need.

Cell phones used to be big, than smaller, the even smaller, then minuscule. And then came iPhone.

Games were about violence, sports, adventures... And then came The Sims.

Years and years of discussion about internet, privacy, sensible data... Enters Facebook...

Note that (by definition) for 1 successful visionary there are at least 100 unsuccessful ones.

Also note that their creations aren't 100% new, there is no such thing as a totally new & successful invention. They are just evolutions of something that was already there. Time is a factor.

Returning in topic, "Seduce Me" is an erotic card game. Nothing revolutionary here, except the rules of the games are bizarre, to say the least.

[weblerrik]

I haven’t played seduce me. The graphics and the idea intrigue me, my desrie to support something like this to encourage more like it have brought me close to spending my money on it but the game play doesn’t interest me.
Being a creator (a writer who just go off his butt and finally published a story) I understand what it is like to put yourself out there. Thankfully for now I haven’t heard any negative feedback on it but at the same time I haven’t hit a wide audience and on that note haven’t sold enough to even talk about really being a writer.
I like some of the arguments and comments but I fear the direction is going back to ‘main stream’ way of thinking. The world where sequels are all the major companies want to make because they know they’ll sell. Any new risks are beign taken by small groups or peole willing to risk a lot to try something new.
This is a sad, sad place to be. It is also sad to see people hate on something because it isn’t their style of game play or idea of what makes a good game. I like that Ford quote because I once worked for a research company that did focus groups for large tech companies.
If I wasn’t stacking the deck with people I knew (you know they pay for those things right?” or getting anyone to come that may or may not really eve know why they are there to close the stupid thiing out so I can move onto something different gives you an example of how focus groups go.
I vote for people making the games they want to make and keeping trying, perfecting their work. They’ll get haters, negative reviews and poor sales, that is the life of a creator who is trying to make it in the world. I just hope for one they keep pushing forward and making things they like while also making a living at it.
I for one hope that I can one day actually make my living off writing stories that people pay me for but for now that ain’t happening. As for Seduce Me maybe I’ll pick up a copy to support them and give it a real try but for now my money is going to things I think I’ll enjoy right up front (though this is still a crap shoot.)

[tlaero]

Welcome to the Lagoon Rik. I hope your stories sell well and that you keep at it.

I'll argue that the world is currently a great place for innovation. Yeah the big publishers are risk adverse, but they always have been. The difference is that now there are options for indies and room for them to bring new ideas. 20 years ago, there was almost no way to publish a novel except going through one of the few publishers. Now we've got print on demand and eBooks and companies like Amazon willing to sell stuff from anyone. We've come a long way.

Tlaero

[kessie8yl]

I haven’t played seduce me. The graphics and the idea intrigue me, my desrie to support something like this to encourage more like it have brought me close to spending my money on it but the game play doesn’t interest me.
Being a creator (a writer who just go off his butt and finally published a story) I understand what it is like to put yourself out there. Thankfully for now I haven’t heard any negative feedback on it but at the same time I haven’t hit a wide audience and on that note haven’t sold enough to even talk about really being a writer.
I like some of the arguments and comments but I fear the direction is going back to ‘main stream’ way of thinking. The world where sequels are all the major companies want to make because they know they’ll sell. Any new risks are beign taken by small groups or peole willing to risk a lot to try something new.
This is a sad, sad place to be. It is also sad to see people hate on something because it isn’t their style of game play or idea of what makes a good game. I like that Ford quote because I once worked for a research company that did focus groups for large tech companies.
If I wasn’t stacking the deck with people I knew (you know they pay for those things right?” or getting anyone to come that may or may not really eve know why they are there to close the stupid thiing out so I can move onto something different gives you an example of how focus groups go.
I vote for people making the games they want to make and keeping trying, perfecting their work. They’ll get haters, negative reviews and poor sales, that is the life of a creator who is trying to make it in the world. I just hope for one they keep pushing forward and making things they like while also making a living at it.
I for one hope that I can one day actually make my living off writing stories that people pay me for but for now that ain’t happening. As for Seduce Me maybe I’ll pick up a copy to support them and give it a real try but for now my money is going to things I think I’ll enjoy right up front (though this is still a crap shoot.)

I can't disagree with the sentiments regarding people having the guts to try something original and so on, but fair's fair - the impression given by all the pre-release plugging which included a considerable amount of back-story and character outlines, etc, bears little or no similarity to the actual game. None of the back-story or character traits actually matter it comes down to it - it's just a matter of whether you win the card games or not.

This is far from being the first game where the link between the task and rewards require the player to ignore all they know to be true about reality for a while, so it's not even particularly original in that context either.

Had the developers toned down the pre-launch hype they may have avoided much of the criticism which seems mostly concerned with the lack of any "connection" between the tasks and objectives. As one guy said on their own board, one minute you're playing cards and the next you're having penetrative sex... Like that happens every day round your house, right?

[outrider9]

Had the developers toned down the pre-launch hype they may have avoided much of the criticism which seems mostly concerned with the lack of any "connection" between the tasks and objectives.

They have also received a lot of praise from people who liked the game. In fact, the feedback is mostly positive.

As one guy said on their own board, one minute you're playing cards and the next you're having penetrative sex... Like that happens every day round your house, right?

The card games are an abstraction for various types of interactions with the NPCs. That has been explained several times in this thread alone. I can understand that not everybody liked that abstraction, but why ignore the explanation?

BTW, by the same token, you're not having penetrative sex; you're watching a picture with people having sex. But that's an abstraction, too - right?

[fukae]

Try not to cheat on your girl, guys. THAT face she makes when she's angry at you for sleeping around... it's like she's out to cut off your wiener and that confrontation game is harder than normal.

It's a good game but I find it sad that the girls are limited to 3 whores and 1 decent girl, the choice is kinda obvious here whom to target. Some of the side characters are a little interesting but too bad you can't get them involved. Another thing that I thought could make the game better was allowing you to choose positions when you win a game with the girl and your intimacy is high enough, like doing it missionary, doggy or just foreplay.

The card game can be very frustrating, definitely could use a save option since many times you roll cards that has no chance of winning.