Virtual Date Rachel Part 2

[captnQWERT]

Just my two cents worth.

As a former Creative Writing major, I can say with a high degree of confidence that some people (myself definitely included) just aren't any good at self-editing. No matter how many times I read through something, a few mistakes always make it through the cracks. The fact that Chaotic is writing, coding, and assembling the game completely on his own to me excuses most of the errors. The loose/lose thing is something I've definitely gotten wrong in the past, so I can't hold it against him. I definitely admire Chaotic for doing everything he does on his own, even considering some of the shortcuts I've read he has used on occasion. Pulling together something like this is something I could never do on my own. That said, perhaps he could use an editor to help him look things over. I know I never produce my best work without some outside help to put me back on track and point out obvious flaws in my work. An editor would help with the occasional spelling issues, as well as the dead link issues.

I made it through all of the endings with a little creative finagling of the HTML tags (admittedly , some of it I should have been able to avoid). I think that the primary thing we should consider is this, though; no matter what people say about Chaotic's games, they still seem to be playing them. As the old cliche says, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". While it may not always knock us off our feet, Chaotic has a decent formula that works to produce consistent materiel, and as one of the people without an offsite pass, I honestly don't feel like I can complain.

[Squeeky]

I think I am correct that Tlaero did offer Chaotic her method to avoid many/most/all(?) of the problems which he produces. I think I recall that he valued her offer but declined in preference for his methodology.

I wonder. Should Chaotic reflect on the Tlaero offer? Is there someone with time and diligence to take apart a flawed Chaotic presentation and use Tlaero's method to show Chaotic the worth of her work?

I only ask.

[ExLibris]

The thing that bothers me around the whole bug/testing issue is not that Chaotic's games contain errors. Everyone makes errors, and the more work you do the more errors you'll make. What bothers me is that by not testing his games, Chaotic is signalling that he doesn't care about those errors and by extension he doesn't care about the quality of his games.

The fact that Chaotic is writing and coding his games on his own does excuse the errors, but to me it doesn't excuse the lack of testing. Goblinboy is another author who writes and codes his own games, but School Dreams 3 and Meteor didn't have gamebreaking bugs because they were adequately tested before release (that's something of a false equivalence since it's a lot easier for a player to fix a broken link in an HTML game than it would be to fix a bug in a TADS game, but I think the general point still stands).

Having had a look at the raw HTML, Rachel 2 actually looks a lot more like Tlaero's system (with the exception of the javascript) than the system Chaotic was previously using. Theoretically that should make his games less prone to bugs because it eliminates the multiple files that previously had to be created merely to increase a variable. However, the bugs in Rachel 2 are simply due to links being wrong.

The overall impression I get from Rachel 2 is that Chaotic is burned out. By my count he's made twenty-one games in approximately twenty-six months, which is a lot by anyone's standards. Perhaps he should take some well-earned rest, recharge his creative batteries, and maybe rediscover the passion for making good games that seems to have been crushed under the pressure of having to release something new every month?

[Cochise]

Heard the new game was out, went to the site, it does indeed say so, but the game is nowhere to be found in the "Games" section. Has it been taken off till Chaotic fixes some bugs?

[Thrain]

Chaotic wants to keep all his works from himself. He clearly said that when Tlaero offered to help.

Chaotic's works suffer from the first day that he is not really good for programing. He is good for lot of thing (graphic, story and whatever) but raw programing is not for him.
He uses a truly simple way for programing his product, that allow him to make what he need. Really fine but not enough.
To enhance quality without rise time to program, there is only one option: use better programing tool. That exactly what Tlaero did, starting from Chaotic's way of programming.

Now it's really simple: there is no obvious bug (I mean broken html link) when Tlaero's tools are used. But with same hundred links, Chaotic is not able (he is only human) to manualy check them and avoid broken links.
There are still bugs in game using Tlaero's tools but there are hardly noticiable for normal player.

Chaotic uses tools for graphics, but he refuses tools for programing part. Hard to understand from my point of view.

Wathever, his games are fun to play... when there are cleaned. I fully understand ExLibris who is tired to map the full game each time. I should admit I not playing anymore Chaotic's game when there are published: to avoid doing same thing that ExLibris do (From my opinion, that kill all fun from game) I wait now several weeks (or months)...

[danigonz]

I don't want to sound bitter, because Chaotic's were almost the first sexy games I played, so I have spent lots of hours of fun thaks to their works.

But, after checking this one, I'm sad to say I've got a bit bored of his games.

Same girls, same situations, same tricks... I feel it's always the same game allover, so I can't frankly find the point of playing this one instead of one of his previous entries.

He made a fe good tries a few games ago, with Sarah and Crystal, avoiding the "let's go party to the city tonight" scenario, but he has repeated it again.

I think he should try another paths. He has done it before (Sci Fi, Fantasy scenarios), so he is capable of innovate and renew my faith in his work!

[J_I]

Let me start by saying that I really enjoy Chaotic's games. I like the style of game, too. Chaotic's, ArianeB, Keeley, etc. - I really enjoy the text + visual interface. They're also some of the few sexy games that don't either introduce some disturbing obsession with forced sex (I'm looking at you, a lot of AIF) and have some focus on the build up and the girl's personality.

So, first of all, thanks to Chaotic for releasing a fun, sexy game for free. That's cool as hell. So far, I've explored one ending and will definitely be back for the rest.

I can't help but feel like this particular game has a lot of very terse scenes, though. More than puzzle solving, I like these games because I enjoy the tension and build up to the sexual content, but I felt like that's been sort of missing. Like, it's very strange to me to ask your neighbor to stay up and wait for you and your date to come home and have her just say "Okay!" Also, buying a round of drinks then saying "Let's bring all these girls back to my place."

I definitely like some of what I've seen of the game, it just seems that everyone in it has become aware of the fact that they're in an adult game, so they just instantly accept rather clear propositions. Then, to satisfy the puzzle side of things, they will seemingly randomly leave or become uninterested.

I like Rachael. She's different from most of the seduce-the-cute-girl girls, and (I can't lie) I like the focus on group sex with her stories. I just would have rather seen the puzzle element be woven together with the tension of meeting the other girls, seeing if they're attracted to you/Rachael, and getting closer via scenarios and scenes rather than the kind of abrupt sex or abrupt dead-ending I've seen so far.

Me: "Let's all go home together! Take off all of your clothes!"
Girls: "Okay!"
*sex*

or

Me: "Dance naked for us."
Girl: "Okay!"
Me: "Let's go out together!"
Rachael: "Wait, I broke a shoe. Date over."

I dunno. It just seems kind of arbitrary and game-y. Maybe it's tough, writing new scenarios for old locations. Personally, I think that these kinds of games need more events rather than just locations.

Instead of clicking Beach leading to "You go to the beach. Leave the beach?" You could get your car stuck in the sand and the scenario could change based on which girl you have with you. Your neighbor could be blasting music when you try to bring a girl home. These sorts of things mix up the narrative and give you and your date(s) something to react to, rather than just standing in a slightly different room with slightly different dance/drink options.

[tlaero]

Let's be clear, folks. While Phreaky's and my games have been relatively bug free, the credit does not go to my Adventure Creator tool.

The secret to our success is Phreaky.

Phreaky tests every scene I send him. Multiple times. He reports my typos. He reports my broken links. He suggests changes. He'd be absolutely invaluable, even if he wasn't doing all the art.

Chaotic doesn't need a new tool. He needs a collaborator.


Tlaero

[Rikwar]

Heard the new game was out, went to the site, it does indeed say so, but the game is nowhere to be found in the "Games" section. Has it been taken off till Chaotic fixes some bugs?

Although I didn't have time to try Rachel Part 2, Chaotic seems to have updated the game 'Rac2_1.1' hopefully all bugs have been fixed !
http://www.vdategames.com/

[thundergod]

Sadly, I must admit that I don't *play* Chaotic's games anymore. I download them and click around a few times to see if there's anything unusual (occasionally there is, but usually there isn't), and when there's not I end up just passing the files into a browser to page through the various scenarios, only re-entering the game when I'm locked into a final sequence.

It's unfortunate. The women are often quite appealing (very much so in this game), the setups are more or less enticing, and the replayability in a game like this one is admirable. But these games are too often the graphic version of "guess the verb" failures in AIF, but here it's "guess the click"...and unlike AIF, there's no real undo function. And the reused graphics in sex scenes, in which three characters are just skin-swapped in the same position, are boring.

Aside from the generalized problems with Chaotic's games, I do enjoy this particular micro-series, in which Rachel enables group sex with all Chaotic's other characters, but I wish the outcomes were harder. A shy-ish character who can be slowly maneuvered into sex in a regular vdate shouldn't be so quick to leap into a 3/4-some. Which leads me to think that one of the problems with this particular game is its scope. There are a *lot* of possible encounters here, and maybe the game would be both better and more controllable if there was a long and problematic slog to get to just one of them. This would allow Chaotic to release games on a regular basis but lower the workload for each one.

[Thrain]

Let's be clear, folks. While Phreaky's and my games have been relatively bug free, the credit does not go to my Adventure Creator tool.
The secret to our success is Phreaky.
Phreaky tests every scene I send him. Multiple times. He reports my typos. He reports my broken links. He suggests changes. He'd be absolutely invaluable, even if he wasn't doing all the art.
Chaotic doesn't need a new tool. He needs a collaborator.
Tlaero

I agree only in part, Tlaero.
I am developper, not for adventure game, but for products which are used by many people, too.

Testing is very valuable and no one can skip that part.
But tools are very very important too. Tools can make many tests, each time you make a change in your product, without doing any error, nor be tired ^^

Broken links are a very good exemple. Your adventure creator tool have knowledge of all links. It should be able to test all of them at anytime you want, in less that 10 seconds, without any mistake.
After that, you can think of many tests that can improve quality. For exemple, build a network of all link (something like mapping ExLibris do), and automaticaly test if you can reach last page starting from the beginning.
That will not avoid all bugs, but at least most obvious ones. Testor(s) can focus on other things that obvious bugs !.

Whatever, 2 guys working together, one checking/testing what the other do is THE DREAM TEAM. Any people who care of developping process are agree on that.

It's funny to see that products which are basicaly non professional, finally hit same problems that professonial ones. And solutions are the same ^^

EDIT: I checked Christine files to see if my asserts were correct. I just saw that I forgot your adventure creator tool don't parse _game.js. Then, true, your adventure creator tool cannot check all broken link.

[J_I]

he reused graphics in sex scenes, in which three characters are just skin-swapped in the same position, are boring.

This is definitely true. There's no progression or organic feel to the sex scenes. They wind up feeling tacked on and not very erotic. I definitely prefer the Keeley approach, where the sex scene is a moving scene, rather than a few shots to click through. Although, as a side note, I think there's a little too much choreography in those sometimes. You can leave SOME action to the imagination. I don't need to click every time to the protagonist thrusts.

A shy-ish character who can be slowly maneuvered into sex in a regular vdate shouldn't be so quick to leap into a 3/4-some.

Yes. Like I said above, everyone seems too aware that they're in an adult game. Kelly went from being a prude to following two strangers to a hotel room and making out with a girl so that she could enter in a stripping contest. I get that people want to see the good girl go bad, but things are relative. If a shy girl is so turned on that she goes two rounds in the comfort of her own bed, it feels naughty, even if you wouldn't be surprised if, say, Rachel did that.

The reason Rachel and Kelly are so popular is because they have a lot of personality. Pushing things like that too far, too fast gloss over a shy character's personality and make them into just another virtual sex girl. Likewise, having random dead-ends for the sake of gameplay gloss over Rachel's personality, in my opinion. "Oops, my shoe broke. The date is over" just really seemed out of character for her.

I don't want to sound like I'm bitching. I do enjoy and appreciate the games that people are producing and sharing. It's just a little critiquing, since it can be very hard to be your own editor.

[dboy]

Thanks again Chaotic, another great game.

Seems there maybe bugs, but seeing as I'm playing for free, who am I to moan.

Just keep em coming as I love em.

[dboy]

Oh and any tips on some endings.

I've had the Rachel bed ending, neighbour ending and the bowling alley ending.

Can anyone point me in the right direction for the rest. Managed to get the 2 girls to the beach and started to skinnydip, then that was it and they headed home. Not sure if Rachel will strip in the club and I'm not even sure what teh other 2 could possibly be? Was thinking the woman at the variet club, but there isn't anywhere to pick apart from eat, drink and watch show.

[ExLibris]

Oh and any tips on some endings.

I've had the Rachel bed ending, neighbour ending and the bowling alley ending.

Can anyone point me in the right direction for the rest. Managed to get the 2 girls to the beach and started to skinnydip, then that was it and they headed home. Not sure if Rachel will strip in the club and I'm not even sure what teh other 2 could possibly be? Was thinking the woman at the variet club, but there isn't anywhere to pick apart from eat, drink and watch show.

I've written a walkthrough, which is posted here: http://www.the-new-lagoon.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2216

The endings are:
Jess/Grace (wasn't Grace a lesbian in her last game?)
Nelena
Sarah
Lucy
Rachel
Streaking
'secret ending'