Meteor by Goblinboy

[ExLibris]

True. It would be a mistake to think of Becky as completely pure and virginal as I was probably doing (though I think she's more so than Molly in SD3). But the ending of CT is still a jump too far for me. C'est la vie.

You've highlighted another aspect of Becky's character that doesn't quite work for me, and that's her devotion to the PC. She'll have sex with him in more or less public places, she wants to marry him, and she'll forgive him if he has sex with another girl when she leaves him alone for five minutes. The only real justification for it that I can think of is that compared to the other men in the School Dreams world (Mike, Gary, the headmaster) the PC could actually be considered quite a catch. Alison says something similar if the PC ends up with her at the party.

I'd also agree that Melissa's characterisation is way more consistent than Becky's. I find her even more unsympathetic than Mike, based on her reaction to Allison's admission that the headmaster raped her. But she's still more than a stereotypical slut.

To me Molly seems to be an 'in between' character (ie. in between the extremes of Melissa and Becky). The morning after scenario you describe is believable to me, but it would be just as believable to me if she joined the group as an eager participant. She's also the only person in the game who's more oblivious to other people's feelings than the PC, so in that sense she might be a better match for him than Becky (who I would describe as the most mature character in the game, except for her blind spot where the PC is concerned).

An Alison-centric game could be quite interesting, but it would have to have a different PC (possibly even Alison herself).

[fesh_king]

thx for the help with the foursome, now how can I get the kissing scene with jenny? and the one where you doublef*** laura and jenny is watching, how do you get the same scene but without jenny watching?

[Dolphin-BR]

cheese101 wrote : beacuse of the multiple endings of sd3,making sd4 will be quite difficult,also he wants to move on to newer projects(ie ghost,meteor etc)

i prefer to let goblin do what he wants(well i say let,his choice really :P ),be grateful for his work

I believe everyone who played School Dreams-3 IS very grateful for it. From my point of view, it's the best AIF game available by far. So, it's no surprise that a lot of people wants to see School Dreams-4. It's natural.

[ExLibris]

fesh_king wrote : thx for the help with the foursome, now how can I get the kissing scene with jenny? and the one where you doublef*** laura and jenny is watching, how do you get the same scene but without jenny watching?

From memory the requirements are:
-James is uninfected at the end of the game
-James has sex with Laura while she's asleep

Basically, you only get the foursome scene if Laura has found out about James' 'activities'

[aaronburr]

fesh_king wrote : thx for the help with the foursome, now how can I get the kissing scene with jenny? and the one where you doublef*** laura and jenny is watching, how do you get the same scene but without jenny watching?

Jenny kissing James or someone else? James kissing Jenny is the first step in their sex scene on Day 3 after she and Laura argue... you talk to Jenny in her room about Laura and sex'n'stuff until she indicates...

Along with ExLibris' list of requirements for endings involving sex with Laura, Jenny is included or not depending on whether Laura discovered (image on PC) that y'all were f***ing or not.

- FMM Laura (no Jenny present): Laura does NOT confront James about him & Jenny, bang Laura in her sleep over night Day 3, evade the 'cure'.
- FFMM Laura/Jenny: photo or webcam of Jenny&James sex, Laura DOES confront James about him & Jenny, then same as above.

[aaronburr]

thundergod wrote :
You need to have had a final scene with the three of them ... and keep examining them. I don't know at which specific point you must do so, but obviously it's after a certain number of actions.

I've been trying, just haven't managed to get it, wondering if someone else has produced it or if there is a specific command beyond 'x and and ' as that always seems to give the 3 separate images...
I guess I'll just keep trying or move on.

... Anna's "infection variable" is based not on Anna's actual condition, but on what you discover about Anna's condition. I *think* the only key trigger scene is the hotel room with Silvers, but I haven't tested the other conditions...

Yes, I was looking to see if someone had tested just the Silver-Anna variable and what else beyond that was the trigger for her infection, so I'm still wondering. I guess I'll just have to play it through sufficient times myself...

The angry confrontation is the trigger (along with having sex with Jenny, of course, and not being cured) for the foursome.

I tested it - the Laura-vid, even when discovered, doesn't seem to effect any ending scene. 'Cured', she doesn't tell your parents anything (so you can still get Ellie&Jenny), un-'cured' it has no bearing on the Dan/Laura ending... I think discovery of either DOES effect Anna rejecting you in the James 'uncured' Anna 'cured' scenario, and if Laura doesn't discover anything, Jenny confesses to banging Dan when you talk to her on Day 4...
Now I'm wondering if choosing option 1 or 3 with Laura overnight (vs option 2, doing as she asked) affects the 'uncured' ending.

[ExLibris]

fesh_king wrote : thx for the help with the foursome, now how can I get the kissing scene with jenny? and the one where you doublef*** laura and jenny is watching, how do you get the same scene but without jenny watching?

I can't tell from that descrïption, but the 'kissing scene' you're referring to may be an epilogue picture where James is still infected, but he didn't seduce Jenny during the game. Unfortunately I don't have a savegame I can easily test that with.

[thundergod]

But the ending of CT is still a jump too far for me.

I guess maybe it just seems so normal in comparison to SD2 that I'm willing to ignore it. ;-)

You've highlighted another aspect of Becky's character that doesn't quite work for me, and that's her devotion to the PC. She'll have sex with him in more or less public places, she wants to marry him, and she'll forgive him if he has sex with another girl when she leaves him alone for five minutes. The only real justification for it that I can think of is that compared to the other men in the School Dreams world (Mike, Gary, the headmaster) the PC could actually be considered quite a catch. Alison says something similar if the PC ends up with her at the party.

Even given that it's AIF, girls are extremely willing to have sex with the PC even when they might have reasons not to, so I'd have to think that this is accurate. (Though I now think we're giving this way more thought that GB did.)

If I had the godlike hand (and the skill) to re-engineer SD3 (which I love, despite the carping I'm doing here), I'd make some changes. The one regarding Molly I've already mentioned, and consequences for Mike & Melissa I've also mentioned. I'd make Gary a *sympathetic* character, rather than another Mike-style jerkoff, which would increase the stakes in the "fight" for Molly...the scene in which Gary gets Molly and the scene in CT in which Mike gets Becky read similarly to me and not in ways I enjoy all that much; they're pretty misogynistic.

But I'd also have a sort of parallel character arc for Becky in which she came to realize that they're all very young, it's too early to be expecting monogamy, and so she's going to have to decide what to do about that. If Gary is a sympathetic character, then the ultimate "fantasy" winning condition -- which I'd want to be very hard to achieve -- would be Molly being unable to choose between you and Gary, and Becky (realizing that it's too early to ask you for monogamy, and that she doesn't mind a little fooling around either) might, under the right conditions, be cajoled into joining you in a foursome. All way more coding then I'd want to think about, but then GB coded a *fivesome* for Meteor, so it's not like he backs down from a fearsome challenge.

That way, we have a post-game scenario in which the PC can continue to penetrate everything that moves without serious consequences (obviously a standard condition in GB's games ;-) ), Becky is not hostile but also not a complete doormat, Molly can be taken in any direction one wants, the option to pursue Kirsty can now be taken without having to pretend SD3 didn't happen any more than SD2 did, and Mike/Melissa have been marginalized. Maybe they're even the "villains" of the next installment.

And then SD4 is about Alison. SD5 could be about Kirsty, if we wanted. But since you and I both agree that we're probably not going to get any of these sequels, it's all speculative.

Changing the subject back to that of the thread, one of the neat tricks GB pulled in Meteor is allowing the PC to be the same oversexed lout that the PC in the SD series is, but to give an in-game reason why this not only happens, but is in fact tolerated and even encouraged. (And having sex with your sister while she sleeps by pretending to be her boyfriend, or screwing your girlfriend's sister behind her back, is loutish behavior by any standard, even if it's pretty much an AIF trope at this point.) He accomplished the same in KtE, in fact, which is why I think that game has more internal character believability than the SD series.

The morning after scenario you describe is believable to me, but it would be just as believable to me if she joined the group as an eager participant.

Oh, absolutely. Either way would work within the sort of universe SD posits, but it's just very hard to believe she wouldn't care *at all* about being the object of a bet, or Mike having seconds, or you basically giving her up to the rest of the room.

An Alison-centric game could be quite interesting, but it would have to have a different PC (possibly even Alison herself).

I agree that Alison as the PC would be the most interesting way to do this, but for obvious reasons almost no one writes female PCs. I don't think it would *have* to have a different PC, though. SD3 can be played so that Alison has positive, or at least neutral, feelings for the PC, even without making her the choice at the end. Yet in both the dreamworld of SD2 and SD3, there's clearly tension between the life she's living and what she really wants. That would be really interesting to explore even if we stick with the same PC...perhaps the "win" in an Alison-centric game is for the PC to *not* have sex with her because she doesn't want to end up like Melissa (and because it's AIF, she would then have sex with the PC anyway ;-) ), while the "loss" is to pursue her like you did Becky and Molly, turning her into someone more like her sister. I think, if handled cleverly, that could be an interesting play on the usual AIF game.

[ExLibris]

To be honest, I do my best to ignore the existence of SD2. I think it's the worst game Goblinboy has ever released (or, to put it another way, the only bad game he's ever released). I can understand why he released it, but I wish he hadn't. One thing it does show though, is that even in his dreams the PC is still Mike's bitch.

SD3 is my 4th favorite AIF game of all time, but there are a lot of little things that annoy me about it (or, to put it another way, things I would have done differently). I agree about the vein of misogyny and objectification of women that runs through the series. It's most obvious in SD2 (which is one reason I've never been able to force myself to play that game all the way through), but as you say it crops up in all three games.

More broadly, the world of SD3 is just a rather unpleasant place. The guys are jerks and the girls are sluts (with a couple of exceptions). Love is the exception rather than the rule, absentee parenting is the norm, and there is no place for empathy or altruism. The PC has the freedom to rape an unconscious girl, but not to stop someone else from raping her.

In defence of SD3's characters though, it should be pointed out that they're a product of the early part of GB's career (they actually pre-date Camping Trip and his involvement in AIF). His writing has improved a lot since then, as Meteor shows. That's part of the reason why I don't want to see him shackled to them, when the characters he's capable of creating now are so much better developed.

On a related note, from my limited knowledge of TADS I don't think the fivesome ending in Meteor is really that complicated, especially since GB simplified the sex scenes in that game. It's still a huge amount of writing, but I think it's still more straightforward than all the possible permutations at Molly's party.

I did think that Meteor had a better plot than SD3 especially since it explains James' superhuman endurance and why all these girls are suddenly hurling themselves at him. But there are still a couple of little things that bug me, such as the fact that the player isn't presented with that explanation until the end of the game. I also felt that having the girls be unable to resist the alien's magic powers rather than anything the player was actually responsible for sucked some of the enjoyment out of it.

The 'meta' element of the alien being the player was a nice touch. I'm not sure if it really added to the enjoyment of the game, but it gives it a level of depth that's generally lacking in AIF. I tend to go through cycles of being really into AIF or despairing at how shallow and formulaic it generally is. I would love to see more character-driven AIF, like you describe. It probably would be a lot of work, not least because no current IF authoring system really handles NPCs that well.

Don't let that put you off though. No matter how rough your first game was, it can't possibly be as bad as some of the things that appeared in the early years of AIF. There are also a lot more author resources than there were back then, so learning an authoring system is not as scary as you might think.

Anyhow, I'm in one of my 'enthusiastic about AIF' phases at the moment, so I should probably get back to trying to hammer one of my half-formed game ideas into shape.

[fesh_king]

I have triggered anna's infection by not catching her on day 3 with silver's, on day 2 I went to silver's room and did not close the door, I watch porn on classes so that I can confront anna about here magazine and searched it on the computer, and the found the receipt in anna's underwear and confronted anna about it. and thx again for the help, I was talking about the epilogue kissing scene with jenny, but the one with laura and you and dan, I was talking about the scene on your foursome with jenny, with you and dan double f***ing laura and jenny is watching, and there is the same picture I found on the bonusmode where jenny is just cut out from the scene but it is the exact same scene.

[thundergod]

I think it's the worst game Goblinboy has ever released (or, to put it another way, the only bad game he's ever released).

It's really barely even a game, more of a story with something like five things you can pick up, examine, and use. And then wall to wall sex with anatomically unlikely pod-girls. Not that there's anything wrong with that, usually, but...

On a related note, from my limited knowledge of TADS I don't think the fivesome ending in Meteor is really that complicated, especially since GB simplified the sex scenes in that game. It's still a huge amount of writing, but I think it's still more straightforward than all the possible permutations at Molly's party.

One thing I *have* very much liked about GB's AIF authoring is that he keeps playing around with new ways of controlling the interactions. The positions in SD2 and KtE, the "sticky" nature of penetrate/withdraw, and so forth. But while I appreciate it, it can make remembering where everything is a little difficult, and it does lead to the inevitable problem of extensively-written sex scenes in which one is just working through a really long list of permutations, which can get a little unerotic.

Meteor tries to avoid that by directing the scenes down a path, and that's good, but even then when there are five characters to deal with there's a lot of typing required, and a lot of "did I remember to have Silvers do X to Anna?" list-ticking. I enjoyed all the different ways the crash scene can play out, and the fivesome version is the most ambitious scene I've encountered (the series of foursomes in Sam Shooter 2 probably come closest; there have been other foursomes, but they've been tightly-controlled), but what I find amazing is less the actual nuts-and-bolts coding of the scene, but the fact that he was able to write all those different permutations of the crash scene without *too* much repetition. That's dedication. ;-)

the player isn't presented with that explanation until the end of the game. I also felt that having the girls be unable to resist the alien's magic powers rather than anything the player was actually responsible for sucked some of the enjoyment out of it.

I guess this doesn't bother me as much as it does you, because I think it's what one expects to be able do in AIF. In Meteor, you're rewarded (or not) for doing what's expected, but there are alternative rewards for *not* doing what's expected...and as noted in your walkthrough, there's one path that pretty much throws everything everyone knows about how to play AIF out the window. I think, perhaps as much or more than any other AIF game of its scope, Meteor doesn't just reward replay, it *requires* it. Not just to see all the different endings (both the active and passive ones), but because there's no way to know that you should, for example, think about being watched until you've played through the game. SD3 has a few different endings, but the path to all of them is more or less obvious from the beginning (or at least, the "puzzles" aren't surprising, even though it may take multiple plays to solve them.

Now, it might indeed be better to see more realistic characters. That would probably mean less sex, though, and I'm not sure enough people want that. I'm also not sure a lot of the writing is up to it. What I'd be satisfied with, instead, is more games in which sex has consequences. That you can't actually have a conscious Laura (in the active part of the game) is, frankly, remarkable for GB. ;-) That he wrote consequences if you do anyway was a pleasant surprise. I'd like to see more of that; you can have a lot of sex, or you can play the game, or you can have the *right* sex and wine the game. Even in SD3, there were consequences to PC/Alison, so I think GB's making progress on this front. I don't object to consequence-free AIF, I just think it makes the games start to feel pretty similar after a while.

To be honest, though, I regret the abandoned Sam Shooter series more than I do an abandoned SD series. I think the diminishing enthusiasm was clear in the last game, but I did think he'd set up the possibility of something more interesting (and, yes, character-driven). And I really, really liked Laurie; any character for whom it's clear that the author has such obvious adoration almost has to be good. I got a kick out of Sam, too, but for different reasons. Unlike the PC in SD, he was at least self-aware.

[ExLibris]

But while I appreciate it, it can make remembering where everything is a little difficult, and it does lead to the inevitable problem of extensively-written sex scenes in which one is just working through a really long list of permutations, which can get a little unerotic.

I kind of felt that way about the final scene in Meteor. When you've got *that* many possible options it starts to be more work than fun getting through them all, tour de force though that scene is in all other respects.

I didn't entirely like the way that GB pared down the interactivity of the sex scenes in Meteor. Things like penetrate/withdraw and different positions mean that navigating a sex scene requires a little more thought (and is therefore more involving) than simply typing in the same nine commands in the same order every scene. As you say, there's obviously a point where that extra complexity becomes counter-productive though, and five people is definitely there.

On the other hand, I wasn't sad to see the disappearance of the arousal mechanic for orgasms. That was the chief culprit in SD3 as far as repeated text goes (including some that originally came from Camping Trip).

One thing I *have* very much liked about GB's AIF authoring is that he keeps playing around with new ways of controlling the interactions.

One thing that I really liked in Meteor was how GB took what could easily have been the least interesting scene in the game (Helen, which has virtually no buildup and is unrelated to anything else in the story) and added a couple of elements (the lipstick and having to talk to her to discover her fantasies) that turned it into one of the most memorable scenes in the game.

What I'd be satisfied with, instead, is more games in which sex has consequences.

I'd agree with that. A sex scene should have some effect on the story, otherwise it's just meaningless. I also like a sex scene to have some sort of context, rather than it being "you're playing AIF so here's a random sex scene".

One other thing I'd quite like to see is sex scenes having different consequences based on what the PC did during them. The final scene with Molly kind of does that, in that there's a particular path that makes her willing to try anal sex, while if you do things another way she isn't. Unfortunately, because it's the last scene in the game you don't really see any consequences from that choice. In the same vein (and orifice) is the decision to have anal sex with Ashlee (or not) in Meteor. Sadly that doesn't seem to have any real consequences as far as I can tell.

From memory Camping Trip was one of the first games where sex had any consequences at all. Way back in the mists of time (around 98-99) the standard model for AIF was the 'Gauntlet' where the PC systematically had sex with all the female characters, working their way up to the one character who was the designated as the 'prize'.

That held true for a long time in that there was an assumption that every female character was sexually available. I remember that Ideal Pacific Coast University caused some consternation by daring to feature a couple of attractive women that it wasn't possible to score with.

Camping Trip was the first game to force the player to make a meaningful choice about who they had sex with rather than just bedding each girl, one after the other (although of course the PC does get both girls in the end).

That choice was pretty much my dominant memory of Camping Trip before I replayed it earlier this year, at which point I was struck by the lack of choice in nearly every other part of the game (and the bet! but that's another rant)

For all that I criticise GB over individual aspects of his games, I have to admit that no author has done more to stretch AIF as a medium. Not only in terms of scope but in the kind of stories that can be told. In Darkness is a good example of that, given that it's an attempt to do tragedy in AIF. I don't think it was entirely successful in that regard, but I have to admire the ambition it showed.

I guess this doesn't bother me as much as it does you, because I think it's what one expects to be able do in AIF.

Something that increases my enjoyment of a sex scene in AIF is the feeling of having done something to earn it. Mentally at least, I place more value on a scene that takes effort to get than on one that's served up on a platter. I don't know if that's true of anyone else, but it's one reason why I'd always choose Becky over Melissa.

[thundergod]

I kind of felt that way about the final scene in Meteor. When you've got *that* many possible options it starts to be more work than fun getting through them all, tour de force though that scene is in all other respects.

The first time I played it, there was only Anna (and Silvers, of course), and I chose the ending where she gets carted off. The next time, without realizing how I had gotten there, Jenny and Kim showed up, and while it was definitely exciting to think about, it was a *lot* of typing. I'm not going to complain too much, though. Now, if *everyone* starts coding fivesomes...

I didn't entirely like the way that GB pared down the interactivity of the sex scenes in Meteor. Things like penetrate/withdraw and different positions mean that navigating a sex scene requires a little more thought (and is therefore more involving) than simply typing in the same nine commands in the same order every scene. As you say, there's obviously a point where that extra complexity becomes counter-productive though, and five people is definitely there.

I'm more willing to take the pare-down to get the game finished and out. I think Meteor is better in its current state than it would have been if GB had borrowed worktime on its plot and structure to make the first scene with Kim more complicated and interactive. It's not like GB's games usually need *more* sex...

I wasn't sad to see the disappearance of the arousal mechanic for orgasms.

I can't decide how I feel about these. I know you've (elsewhere) advocated for even more severe limitations...realistic limitations...on what can and can't happen. I think I'd be satisfied (no pun intended) if the arousal tickers moved a little quicker. Having to repeat something seven times, six times with identical response text, and then do it three more times (still with identical text) so the partner gets off, is rarely arousing.

One other thing I'd quite like to see is sex scenes having different consequences based on what the PC did during them.

Yes, that's good. Happens many times in Meteor, actually: Helen, Anna, Kim, Jenny, Ellie, Ashlee. Though all of them are pretty minor, mostly just affecting what kind of sex you're going to get or how much you're going to have to work for it, and only one of them (Ashlee) is something you can't solve/make up for on the fly. Although this was true even back in CT, where you could get some relief from Melissa in the second clearing scene as long as it wasn't the wrong kind of relief, and still be the "wronged party" a few minutes later while spinning bottles. Whereas SD3 has some *very* consequential sex...I'm thinking less of Molly than of Allison.

For all that I criticise GB over individual aspects of his games, I have to admit that no author has done more to stretch AIF as a medium.

Agreed. We need to work to discourage him from doing Flash games, as he threatened. ;-)

In Darkness is a good example of that, given that it's an attempt to do tragedy in AIF.

Actually, for me that's the best thing he's ever done. Not something I "enjoy" playing, for obvious reasons, but in terms of mood, purpose, and story, I think it's a masterpiece.

[aaronburr]

I am looking for hints as to what triggers Kelly's arrival at the crashsite with Anna, and what triggers Anna being suspected.

I just played through again, learning nothing about Anna's past or present (other than with me), and managed to keep myself unsuspected, but Anna was suspected at the end - do I need to break up with her to keep her safe?? I tried both catching/not her talking with Silvers, no difference.
When I played through again, this time ensuring my suspicion by doing Ashlee, Silvers and Anna went at it at the crashsite, but then afterward Anna mentions Kelly being present... but she never showed??

Am I hitting bugs? How do I get Kelly to show up when I am suspected, and how do I keep Anna totally unsuspected without deliberately busting myself on Ashlee? Thoughts...?

[ExLibris]

aaronburr wrote : I am looking for hints as to what triggers Kelly's arrival at the crashsite with Anna, and what triggers Anna being suspected.

I just played through again, learning nothing about Anna's past or present (other than with me), and managed to keep myself unsuspected, but Anna was suspected at the end - do I need to break up with her to keep her safe?? I tried both catching/not her talking with Silvers, no difference.
When I played through again, this time ensuring my suspicion by doing Ashlee, Silvers and Anna went at it at the crashsite, but then afterward Anna mentions Kelly being present... but she never showed??

Am I hitting bugs? How do I get Kelly to show up when I am suspected, and how do I keep Anna totally unsuspected without deliberately busting myself on Ashlee? Thoughts...?

Kelly and/or Ashlee appear at the crash site as a kind of 'last temptation' if Silvers does not have enough evidence against either James or Anna. The easiest way to get that ending is to go through the game as fast as possible, doing absolutely nothing.

Otherwise, things that make Anna more likely to be infected include:
Finding out about her magazine photoshoot
Finding out about her hardcore website appearance
Finding out about her past boyfriends from Kim
Finding the hotel receipt
Learning that Tammy has also had sex with Anna
Catching Anna with Silvers (if they're actually having sex then Anna is always suspected)

So don't look at porn in class, don't ask Kim about Anna, don't have sex with Tammy, and don't go anywhere near room 13 on day 3.

You may also want to avoid having sex with Anna (especially not in semi-public places), although in my experience that's not necessary.

You do not need to break up with Anna. The only ways to do that are to tell her that you've had sex with Kim or to catch her with Silvers and confront her with the hotel bill. The latter will ensure that Anna is infected. The former may do, depending on how much of Anna's past you find out from Kim or if you tell Mickey that you've broken up with Anna.

NB. in my experience if Anna has accrued some suspicion, but James has acted in a very suspicious way (eg. having sex with Ashlee) then only James will be infected at the crash site. However, if you reload and avoid having sex with Ashlee then only Anna will be infected. So it's not a case of building up enough 'suspicion points' and that person then being infected.

There is also a bug where Anna says that Kelly was at the crash site, even if she wasn't, which you seem to have encountered.