ERIN

[Dolphin-BR]

I believe that since Erin's Awards are about FREE AIF games, it belongs to this forum as well.

[tlaero]

Even if Dreaming With Elsa wasn't nominated, it would be neat to see Tlaero win the Badman Memorial Award. Not even being cheeky, but I honestly don't know who else in the community is more deserving considering Tlaero's past releases as well as providing Adventure Creator that's now being used by new creators. So yeah, with a wink and a nudge maybe we can do something about that, eh?

Thank you. I don't actually know what that award is but it's cool that you think highly enough of me to suggest it. I haven't paid much attention to the ERIN awards because I assumed they were for TADS/inform style games (ones where you type rather than click). My wrist situation is such that I don't get to play too many of those games. Also I figured that ExMachina was a representative sample of that community, and she's so critical of me that I didn't think I'd fit in. Not a worry though. I like it here on the lagoon.

Tlaero

[caravaggio]

Even if Dreaming With Elsa wasn't nominated, it would be neat to see Tlaero win the Badman Memorial Award. Not even being cheeky, but I honestly don't know who else in the community is more deserving considering Tlaero's past releases as well as providing Adventure Creator that's now being used by new creators. So yeah, with a wink and a nudge maybe we can do something about that, eh?

Thank you. I don't actually know what that award is but it's cool that you think highly enough of me to suggest it. I haven't paid much attention to the ERIN awards because I assumed they were for TADS/inform style games (ones where you type rather than click). My wrist situation is such that I don't get to play too many of those games. Also I figured that ExMachina was a representative sample of that community, and she's so critical of me that I didn't think I'd fit in. Not a worry though. I like it here on the lagoon.

Tlaero

I think too that it is for "typing games", either in adrift, tads or blabla, otherwise me too i would have voted for you. Btw, if by Exmachina you meant ExLibris I think she's extremely critical about each and every game she reviewed, not just yours, I think it' s just the way she reviews, not that she actually doesn0t like the games.

[tlaero]

D'oh, you're right. I meant ExLibris. I don't mind negative reviews (not that I, or anyone else, enjoys them, mind you), especially if there's something that can help me improve, but I find her to be too nitpickity. I mean seriously, I really do call my friends "dear" to their faces. Such things happen in the real world...

It's a common lament from creators across the skill spectrum, but we often wish that people who spend so much time finding fault would walk a mile in our hiking boots. Not that I think you need to create to review, but, man, to sum up 6 months of hard work with a complaint that you don't like a character's term of endearment just seems ... petty.

Anyway, I've associated that behavior with that community, probably unfairly, so I've never paid much attention to them. The fact that getting access to stuff on yahoo groups isn't straightforward contributes to my perceptions. As I write this, though, I'm having trouble not seeing my behavior as prejudiced (assuming everyone in a group is like the one example you've met is pretty textbook). That's ... uncomfortable.

Tlaero

[Greyelf]

Most of it is fan nominated but there are specific criteria as to where the games are released, available.
... snip ...

TY @boyo111

@Skelaturi: I thought there would be a simple solution to your issue, all you need to do is contact the Creator of a game you think should be included and convince them that either they or yourself should post about that game on the relevant web-site. *smile*

[iksanabot]

D'oh, you're right. I meant ExLibris. I don't mind negative reviews (not that I, or anyone else, enjoys them, mind you), especially if there's something that can help me improve, but I find her to be too nitpickity. I mean seriously, I really do call my friends "dear" to their faces. Such things happen in the real world...

It's a common lament from creators across the skill spectrum, but we often wish that people who spend so much time finding fault would walk a mile in our hiking boots. Not that I think you need to create to review, but, man, to sum up 6 months of hard work with a complaint that you don't like a character's term of endearment just seems ... petty.

Anyway, I've associated that behavior with that community, probably unfairly, so I've never paid much attention to them. The fact that getting access to stuff on yahoo groups isn't straightforward contributes to my perceptions. As I write this, though, I'm having trouble not seeing my behavior as prejudiced (assuming everyone in a group is like the one example you've met is pretty textbook). That's ... uncomfortable.

Tlaero

God damn it, Tlaero, you are so fucking cool!

[boyo111]

At the time they were created it was more about the Adrift/TADs game creation community, in the past there were RAGs games in there as well...I think. Been awhile so I don't remember. Might be worth checking in the aifcommunity blog. It's not just releasing in the Yahoo Groups, though it started there, but honestly the traffic there is slow...most posts are in the aifcommunity reddit or other spots now.

Considering there are more tools nowadays maybe its worth seeing about adding a new platform, section, or whatnot for other games.

Or perhaps creating a new award just for games like Tlaero's and others who use a more point and click platform, but tell a sexy story real well. There definitely seems to be enough of a mass of people who are more than willing to comment and provide feedback. I'd like to see more recognition given to the authors who slave away in the free time to provide a quality product.

[LRM]

D'oh, you're right. I meant ExLibris. I don't mind negative reviews (not that I, or anyone else, enjoys them, mind you), especially if there's something that can help me improve, but I find her to be too nitpickity. I mean seriously, I really do call my friends "dear" to their faces. Such things happen in the real world...

It's a common lament from creators across the skill spectrum, but we often wish that people who spend so much time finding fault would walk a mile in our hiking boots. Not that I think you need to create to review, but, man, to sum up 6 months of hard work with a complaint that you don't like a character's term of endearment just seems ... petty.

Anyway, I've associated that behavior with that community, probably unfairly, so I've never paid much attention to them. The fact that getting access to stuff on yahoo groups isn't straightforward contributes to my perceptions. As I write this, though, I'm having trouble not seeing my behavior as prejudiced (assuming everyone in a group is like the one example you've met is pretty textbook). That's ... uncomfortable.

Tlaero

God damn it, Tlaero, you are so fucking cool!

We 're in agreement!
I think if she winked at the lagoon there'd be men lined up around the block to take her down the isle.

Now for business... aren't a few miles off topic? caravaggio, it's your thread, on topic?

[Dolphin-BR]

D'oh, you're right. I meant ExLibris. I don't mind negative reviews (not that I, or anyone else, enjoys them, mind you), especially if there's something that can help me improve, but I find her to be too nitpickity. I mean seriously, I really do call my friends "dear" to their faces. Such things happen in the real world...

It's a common lament from creators across the skill spectrum, but we often wish that people who spend so much time finding fault would walk a mile in our hiking boots. Not that I think you need to create to review, but, man, to sum up 6 months of hard work with a complaint that you don't like a character's term of endearment just seems ... petty.

Anyway, I've associated that behavior with that community, probably unfairly, so I've never paid much attention to them. The fact that getting access to stuff on yahoo groups isn't straightforward contributes to my perceptions. As I write this, though, I'm having trouble not seeing my behavior as prejudiced (assuming everyone in a group is like the one example you've met is pretty textbook). That's ... uncomfortable.

Tlaero

I read many of ExLibris posts, and I can tell you she's NOT a kind of negative person. Usually, if not all the time, her comments are relevant, accurate and wise. Maybe she was in a really bad day when she was that nitpicky.

At the time they were created it was more about the Adrift/TADs game creation community, in the past there were RAGs games in there as well...I think. Been awhile so I don't remember. Might be worth checking in the aifcommunity blog. It's not just releasing in the Yahoo Groups, though it started there, but honestly the traffic there is slow...most posts are in the aifcommunity reddit or other spots now.

Considering there are more tools nowadays maybe its worth seeing about adding a new platform, section, or whatnot for other games.

Or perhaps creating a new award just for games like Tlaero's and others who use a more point and click platform, but tell a sexy story real well. There definitely seems to be enough of a mass of people who are more than willing to comment and provide feedback. I'd like to see more recognition given to the authors who slave away in the free time to provide a quality product.

I agree with you. Maybe Erin's Awards should expand and somehow include games outside TADS, Adrift, Inform and alike platforms. Tlaero, Mortze and other authors deserve recognition for their great work.

[Mimailia]

Just so you know, there was a discussion about "What is AIF?" shortly before the announcement. For me, personally, AIF needs to involve a text parser. But let's not forget that Blade's "Call of the Siren" won an Erin in the early years.

M

[caravaggio]

@LRM lol, no worries, i'm for the stream of consciousness (as long as people go and vote for the ERIN's)

I agree on the fact that there should be an award for browser game, as someone pointed out here we have great authors such tlaero, mortze,wolfschadow who all would deserve some kind of recognition.

[jk103]

D'oh, you're right. I meant ExLibris. I don't mind negative reviews (not that I, or anyone else, enjoys them, mind you), especially if there's something that can help me improve, but I find her to be too nitpickity. I mean seriously, I really do call my friends "dear" to their faces. Such things happen in the real world...

It's a common lament from creators across the skill spectrum, but we often wish that people who spend so much time finding fault would walk a mile in our hiking boots. Not that I think you need to create to review, but, man, to sum up 6 months of hard work with a complaint that you don't like a character's term of endearment just seems ... petty.

Anyway, I've associated that behavior with that community, probably unfairly, so I've never paid much attention to them. The fact that getting access to stuff on yahoo groups isn't straightforward contributes to my perceptions. As I write this, though, I'm having trouble not seeing my behavior as prejudiced (assuming everyone in a group is like the one example you've met is pretty textbook). That's ... uncomfortable.

Tlaero

I've always really respected ExLibris's reviews even if I don't agree with all of them. It's really hard to get honest, critical feedback in a public space like these forums, and I think it's nice to have those reviews somewhere where the average fan will never see unless they go out of their to look for it.

Critics are incredibly important to any healthy, creative medium. Even if I haven't published any games (yet ), I've published creative work in other fields and I've always found people like ExLibris to be a godsend, if you have the right ear for it.

[Guntag]

I haven't paid much attention to the ERIN awards because I assumed they were for TADS/inform style games (ones where you type rather than click).

And you are right about this according to the eligibility criteria :

For the purposes of this year's iteration of the Erins, entries must fulfil the following criteria:

1. They must be adult games where the player uses text-based gameplay to advance the narrative.

[TheBrain]

It's a common lament from creators across the skill spectrum, but we often wish that people who spend so much time finding fault would walk a mile in our hiking boots. Not that I think you need to create to review, but, man, to sum up 6 months of hard work with a complaint that you don't like a character's term of endearment just seems ... petty.

Well, ExLibris' review of dreaming with Elsa summed up your work as "As a result, despite all the ways that DwE wasn't to my taste, I actually enjoyed playing it overall.". Isn't it also a bit dishonest to take one small part of a review to be representative for the entire review, or, as you point out, even for an entire community? Yes, she is critical, but from her involvement here on the forum I doubt that any of it is meant as disrespect to your work.

[tlaero]

I don't think I knew about the site until Life with Keeley, and I remember her review for that saying something to the effect of, "I beta tested this, so I played it a lot and am burned out on it," then saying a number of negative things. That seemed pretty unfair. If I had known that she was writing reviews and that her beta testing the game was going to mean I got a worse review, I wouldn't have asked her to test it. (To be fair, though, she gave me a lot of good feedback during that beta test, and I implemented a lot of it.) I also remember her complaining that Keeley was unrealistic because she didn't like finding her husband's porn. It's completely fair to say, "I wouldn't care if I found my husband's porn stash." It's less so to suggest that no woman would act like that.

I remember going back and reading some of the earlier reviews as well as a discussion in the comments with someone about it being silly that one of my characters called another "dear." And I remember her harping on that a few times. Since I, myself, say that in real life, I found the attention given to such a small aspect of the game to be misplaced. That example sticks out, but I feel like there were a number like it. Maybe I'm misremembering.

If she's gotten better in later reviews, though, that's cool.

As for assertion that "critics" (as apposed to "players") play an important role in the creative process, I think that is outdated. Certainly in the past when there was no interaction between a creator and the public, a critic posting a review was quite valuable. But that's no longer the world we live in. I'm here. I read and respond to people. And, aside from a momentary lapse in the Life With Keeley thread, I'm generally pretty respectful with people's opinions and open to feedback.

I think it's much more valuable for someone to come here and say, "Tlaero, I don't like that you made the male character weak," or "Tlaero, I think the game is too linear," than for someone to write a review on a different site that complains about questionably important things. The goal of the former is pretty clearly to help me make better games. I'm not exactly sure what the goal of the latter is. Is it to help me improve? If so, why not use a more effective method?

When people give feedback here, we can discuss it. I can ask clarifying questions and really understand them. Other people can build upon it. I can explain what I was trying to do and people can say, "Oh, in that case you should have done it like this." And I can try to do that in the next game. I can unquestionably say that my games have improved as a result of the conversations we've had here on the lagoon. I can't say the same about external "reviews."

Tlaero