Laura's Temptations

[kessie8yl]

Sorry, but I'm not agree. It's obvious that the creator of these games is trying hard to make them seem as if they were Leos's: the "pulsating" effect of the characters and the type of letters used are the same than in older games from Lessons od Passion.

But the result is pretty lame:
-Firstly, it's not a proper game: you only have to click, click and click again in order to progress.
-The graphics are way worse than the ones in old Leo's games, and the human figures doesn't merge well with the backgrounds: they seem to be floating, and some of the poses are really ridiculous (the way she drinks the wine us really funny, in the bad sense).
-There's not story at all, just poor excuses to show sexual intercourses. That won't be that bad if, at least, the erotic scenes were good, but...

-... even the hardcore elements are annoying: the cumshots are the worst ever showed in an erotic game, and the design of the "fucking" scenes, with him hiding the female figure, is really stupid.

I know I have been really harsh with this. But these games have broken the first rule of plagiarism: If you are going to copy... do it right!

Well you've just shot a whole lot of holes in your own arguement - How can they be "trying hard to make them seem as if they were Leos's" (sic) yet at the very same time be so remarkably distinct from Leo's that it takes you four paragraphs to list the differences?

The effects they have in common with Leo's are characteristics of the tools used to create the games - clearly they share the same basic engine, but that's always been the case with computer games. I don't hear anyone complaining that all TADS games are basically stealing from whichever was the first.

As a point of interest - it has already been stated that whoever is behind sensagames is apparently a former colleague of Leo's - so how do you know which of them came up with the "pulsating effect" and other things that were used in those early games you seem so fond of?

In any case, I wasn't stating any preference, only pointing out that the actual games and the artwork they contain appear to be original - and many of them are FREE!

Constructive criticism is one thing but to accuse someone of plagarism is not acceptable - not to mention a slander.

.

[tlaero]

You're right that it's not stealing or thievery. But it IS lame. (-:

Tlaero

[kessie8yl]

You're right that it's not stealing or thievery. But it IS lame. (-:

Tlaero

So Sinead O'Connor's cover of "Nothing Compares 2 U" was lame too, was it?

... and like I said, there's nothing to say the original style of the LOP material was Leo's idea and not his former colleagues... If that turned out to be the case would it invalidate everything Leo has done and make him "lame" in your eyes?

Assuming they both started at the same time and went their separate ways I would agree Leo has made more progress - but to accuse the other team of being "lame" is not what I would expect from you of all people. You are a very talented developer but it saddens me to see you sniping at someone else who is making an effort to learn.

It is not "lame" to use a common tool - as in the example of TADS or ADRIFT, etc... Clearly Goblinboy is an exceptional talent in that area but that doesn't mean anyone else who develops a game using those platforms is "lame" because they all basically work by entering noun/verb combinations, just like Goblinboy's (and I know I've over-simplified there but I think you will understand my general point without being pedantic).

Give the guy a break... Nobody ever got better at anything by having their head bitten off for trying.

[Greebo]

Covers quite often are lame! As for films -- why did they even attempt to remake "The Day The Earth Stood Still"? It's a classic like "King Kong"

[kessie8yl]

Covers quite often are lame! As for films -- why did they even attempt to remake "The Day The Earth Stood Still"? It's a classic like "King Kong"

"The Day the Earth Stood Still" (2008) - "The film was released in late 2008 and earned over $230 million worldwide" - Source: Wikipedia... They also remade King Kong (Fay Wray - total babe... but don't get me started on that ) or perhaps you're referring to the remake being the "classic" and have no idea who Fay Wray was? The thing is, having earned $230million, clearly not everyone agrees with you about DTESS (as it happens, I do), but the artistic freedom to take an original idea and rework or remake it should not be denied on that basis alone- and in any case the result is often an improvement.

Interesting but not entirely related fact - The Beatles never released tracks from their early albums as singles as they felt that would be "cheating" their fans - and many careers were built on having a hit with a cover of a Beatles track as a result... Rolling Stones "lame" then?

Whether you think the games are good or bad isn't the issue - the criticism was that the sites and games "look and feel" like Leo's - but that's largely the product of the tools used to create them.

Taking another example, would it also be the case that if one moderately-successful author publishes a book with a black cover and gold letters, the pages typeset in 11.75 Monotype Columbus, no other book should ever be published using that combination because that would be "theft" or "lame"?

Is "Star Wars" lame - considering the amount of ideas "borrowed" from other sources? How about Terry Pratchett? The road goes ever on and on.... Oh! Wait a minute! Hasn't someone used that line before?? Dammit!

Happy Christmas all!

[tlaero]

You are a very talented developer but it saddens me to see you sniping at someone else who is making an effort to learn.

I'm all for people learning. I spend a considerable amount of time on the projects board helping people do just that. In Laura, though, I don't see someone trying to learn. I see someone trying to make a game as similar as possible to Leo's. My assumption is that he's doing it to hitch a ride on Leo's success, which I find Lame. If, in fact, he's doing it because he wants to learn how to write erotic games and he's emulating the games he likes best, then I retract the "lame" statement and replace it with, "I hope he finds his own voice soon."

Tlaero

[anggus]

It appears that all the games on his site are only low quality impersonations of leonizer's works at the moment. Perhaps the developer will have some original ideas in the future.

[kessie8yl]

You are a very talented developer but it saddens me to see you sniping at someone else who is making an effort to learn.
"I hope he finds his own voice soon."

Tlaero

Well firstly you are all assuming he (or she) contributed nothing to Leo's site when they were colleagues... chicken or egg, sort of thing... but whether he did or not, he learned how to do stuff a certain way so it only seems natural that he concentrates on the other aspects of game development instead of spending time in an attempt to invent a whole new set of tools to deal with those technical bits he can already do with the skills he has...

I really don't understand what all the fuss is about... It's just like you using a recipe when you're cooking.

[kessie8yl]

It appears that all the games on his site are only low quality impersonations of leonizer's works at the moment. Perhaps the developer will have some original ideas in the future.

For cyring out loud... Just about every game is "Boy meets girl then they have sex"... If you want to argue along those lines you may as well say Leo's "Lake Party" is ripping off "Meet n Fuck", what with the pleasure bar and all.

[danigonz]

Frankly, this thing is getting boring...

There are exeptions, but the majority of erotic games are focused on sexual scenes in which the player advances clicking or moving the mouse over certain areas, and/or choosing from given choices. So, I don't expect much innovation there.

Considering the above, one of the main areas for innovation and differentiation is design. And in this case, the design resembles too much to Leo's style.

Let's imagine that these games simply doesn't show the pulsating effect (by the way, an annoying resource fortunately skipped by Leonizer in his lastest games) and have a different text family... The result won't look like a Lesson of Passion rip off.

It would also help if the designer put a bit more of effort on having a proper story before the sexual intercourse: even Meet,n Fuck games work harder in this area.

[kessie8yl]

Frankly, this thing is getting boring...

There are exeptions, but the majority of erotic games are focused on sexual scenes in which the player advances clicking or moving the mouse over certain areas, and/or choosing from given choices. So, I don't expect much innovation there.

Considering the above, one of the main areas for innovation and differentiation is design. And in this case, the design resembles too much to Leo's style.

Let's imagine that these games simply doesn't show the pulsating effect (by the way, an annoying resource fortunately skipped by Leonizer in his lastest games) and have a different text family... The result won't look like a Lesson of Passion rip off.

It would also help if the designer put a bit more of effort on having a proper story before the sexual intercourse: even Meet,n Fuck games work harder in this area.

I was also an early critic of the mechanics involved in Leo's games - for one thing they seemed to draw too much attention away from the excellent graphics. He has now apparently abandoned finding any orignal way to represent foreplay, etc, by opting for the same method used by "Meet n Fuck". Do I hear cries of "theft" and "lame"? No. Do I care? No. Does anyone else care? Apparentely not.

Without wishing to offend Leo, his storylines aren't exactly immersive either. I'm sure even he tips his hat to Shark in that regard, but you and I do agree there are limitations on what is possible given that the basic object of every game is for character a to have sex with character b (and possibly c, d, e and f instead of or as well as).

As for the references to "pulsating effects" and other styles featured in games released under Leo's banner, as I have now said several times they were apparently colleagues - so who is to say which of them came up with specific ideas that we have come to consider as "Leo's"? I am no expert but the tools used in creating these games will naturally have great influence on the graphical representations (the same way the characters created by Shark naturally bear a passing resemblence to images you can find on the Daz 3D website). The creator of ArianeB has written whole pages on the subject of the influence different graphics apps have on the finished article on his blog. I don't know which application is used by Leo/sensagames but it may also be limited as to which fonts, etc, are available. That would account for those similarities.

The thing I don't understand is why people are so quick to assume there is a conscious attempt to copy someone in this case when they are happy to accept such similarites in others.

There aren't enough devs to meet the demand - this Christmas seems to have been particularly slow compared to previous years. We are constantly being told devs "have lives" and of course they do. Nobody in their right mind would suggest otherwise, but that means there's plenty of room for new devs to feed the consumer's hunger for the product. As far as I am concerned the more the merrier. We may get a truckload of crap (and "me too") games but it also increases the chance of uncovering an otherwise hidden talent. If all they are met with is people pissing on their cornflakes it will deter them (and others) from trying.

When it comes down to it, don't we all want more quality games that we can enjoy - especially free ones? I think it makes a refreshing change from the trend of opting to put everything behind paysites so you have to cough up before finding out a game isn't what it was cracked-up to be.

I fully and totally agree with your final paragraph - but wonder why you seem to think that is less important than whether the fonts resemble Leo's or not. As I said previousy - he already has a tool that can put words and pictures on a page, so I think it would be of more benefit to concentrate on getting the content right. I'd urge him to do more about that - even if it means finding someone else to come up with scripts. I don't know about you but if I'm at a friend's house watching a really good movie I'm not thinking about what colour his curtains are.

I'm finding myself going over old ground again, so if anyone's thinking of adding any more comments I would ask that they please read the whole topic first. I really don't think there's much more I can add that could make it any more self-evident.

One final word on the subject - If Leo objects he's been very quiet on the subject, considering how long sensagames has been around. I believe Leo's big enough to be fighting his own corner if it concerned him, so if he's not bothered why should we be?

[Xyzzy987]

Covers quite often are lame! As for films -- why did they even attempt to remake "The Day The Earth Stood Still"? It's a classic like "King Kong"

Oooh, the original "Day the Earth Stood Still," with Michael Rennie and Patricia O'Neal. Best science fiction movie ever made. Bar none. And I don't really care how much money the remake with Keanu Reeves made, it was one of the biggest wastes of film (or videotape or whatever) ever. Truly a horrible movie. The only major movie I can think of right now that was worse is "Apocalypse Now." Complete waste of celluloid. On the other hand, even though Faye Wray was certainly a babe, the remake of King Kong was very good indeed, even with Jack Black. These are, of course, my own opinions.

I don't have a problem with senseagames. While the look is similar to Leo's games, I still view it as original work. It is, of course, not up to the standards of LOP or PF1.