BEW - Ongoing Dev Thread (DAZ Artists Still Wanted)

[ares]

I will wait for the whole 7 days to be completed to play it. Even if Act 1 is a natural break point, judging by the quality of what was released, the game is likely to be very good. I prefer to see the whole story in one go and not wait for another 6 months to see the ending.

But of course, I have nothing against the release of the 1st Act, it's just that I won't download it.

And by the way, have you considered setting up a donations page? I think people would be glad to donate taking into account all the effort you are putting into it. (same thing applies for tlaero and phreaky obviously)

[sylakone2]

I thought you were gonna release a full day 1/morning day 2 to this area of the forum? Why the change of plan?
Having to wait possibly 3 months for the next public release is gonna be aggrevating

Nothing nefarious in the plan change. I just don't want to burn everyone out on the game by making a lot of public releases.

I suspect that some of the playtesters are pretty sick of it by now from playing and replaying the early scenes. One or two may be physically sickened by the thought of playing through it again.

I decided to do a beta release after Act 1, which is a natural break point in the story, and based on reception and demand, possibly do another beta release after Act 2. This is primarily to prevent burnout from players, but if 10-15 people post here a request to do a release once Thursday (Day 2) Morning is complete and the playtesters say it's ready, I will do so. On the other hand, if too many post here for me not to do so...I will stick with waiting for Act 1 completion.

Wolfschadowe.

Doh! I was looking forward to the next release. There has not been anything else released for quite a while I was hoping to play yours again to maybe get motivated to do some more work on Uni Dreams.
It has been hard to find the time and the energy to continue work on my own game there is so much to do.

Either way keep up the good work.

Sy

[crossy]

I have been lurking around this post regularly looking forward to the next installment. I.e, if you released one I would love it, but at the end of the day its your choice as the creator.

As for your talk about burn out, I would suggest that you roll through your play testers ( from the sounds of earlier posts you had a number of them ). When you are working on new sections you can stick with your regulars ( those that give you the feedback ) but every now and then when you 'release' a section I would suggest getting at least one new person to play it from scratch, make sure it all still works together.

Whatever you decide I don't think it really matters. I would compare it to ArianeB (and SITA), you want the game to have a level of completeness whenever you publicly release it, but that does not mean it needs to be by any means complete. If that makes sense Release it when you feel you have developed the characters / story enough, then release v2, ( hopefully v3, v4, and more ) as you 'complete' the game.

[AnotherWannabe]

Well, I've got to admit I was really looking forward to playing through your game, so it's a bit of a disappointment to see you won't be releasing it for a bit. I occasionally go back to your game for a spin, so at the very least I'm not burned out on it. And, well, as both an impatient and bitterly pessimistic person, I'm not sure you'll ever finish the game, so my feeling is that I might as well enjoy the bits you have right now.

I am, really, your most depressing cheerleader. I don't really know if you can do it, but I really wish for your success.

[Wolfschadowe]

I know I posted responses to everyone back on Friday, but that post seems to have been lost somewhere. My apologies for the delay.

Si j'ai bien compris (mais mon anglais est très approximatif), je vote oui pour une version beta supplémentaire.
La qualité de la version 0.08 est déjà excellente. Bravo pour ce jeu !

Bonjour whynot,
Je suis heureux que vous avez apprécié mon jeu. Je vous remercie pour vos aimables paroles.

Personally speaking, it's tempting to suggest that you still release the full day demo because I'm interested in seeing more already, but it sounds like waiting for the Act 1 release is probably the better idea overall.

I think the full Act 1 will be more fulfulling. It is almost a game in and of itself, whereas day one just kind of cuts off mid-story. So does ACT 1, for that matter, but it makes sense there.

I will wait for the whole 7 days to be completed to play it. Even if Act 1 is a natural break point, judging by the quality of what was released, the game is likely to be very good. I prefer to see the whole story in one go and not wait for another 6 months to see the ending.

I know where you are coming from. I am often disappointed when I play a lot of a beta and then I burn myself out on the game by the time it goes live. I always tell myself I will avoid betas in the future...and I never do.

And by the way, have you considered setting up a donations page? I think people would be glad to donate taking into account all the effort you are putting into it. (same thing applies for tlaero and phreaky obviously)

I don't really expect or need donations. My day job keeps me well funded, but I'm not so altruistic that I would turn down someone who wants to buy me a beer. I included a link to my donations page in my original post, and suspect it was deleted because of it. Rather than try to game the system, if anyone has a burning desire to throw money at me, PM me and I'll reply with the link. I'm just having fun with it though, so I don't really expect any PM's on that topic.

Doh! I was looking forward to the next release. There has not been anything else released for quite a while I was hoping to play yours again to maybe get motivated to do some more work on Uni Dreams.
It has been hard to find the time and the energy to continue work on my own game there is so much to do.

I understand what you mean about finding the time and energy to work on the game. There are days occasionally when I don't want to even think about BEW, let alone look at it or work on it...so I don't. I always seem to come back to it within a day or two though. It calls to me.

As for your talk about burn out, I would suggest that you roll through your play testers ( from the sounds of earlier posts you had a number of them ). When you are working on new sections you can stick with your regulars ( those that give you the feedback ) but every now and then when you 'release' a section I would suggest getting at least one new person to play it from scratch, make sure it all still works together.

Thanks crossy, I'm glad you enjoyed what's out there. I just brought on new playtesters for exactly the reason you pointed out, and they already found stuff that was missed by the first group. Fresh eyes make all the difference, no matter how good we are.

And, well, as both an impatient and bitterly pessimistic person, I'm not sure you'll ever finish the game, so my feeling is that I might as well enjoy the bits you have right now.
I am, really, your most depressing cheerleader. I don't really know if you can do it, but I really wish for your success.

"RAH! Rah. whatever..." I don't know if I'll finish the game or not myself, but if I do give up on it, I will at least post whatever I have at that time. I am glad you are looking forward to what comes next though.

Wolfschadowe

[crossy]

Awesome dude.

If you need anymore play testers, feel free to give me a shout.

[Wolfschadowe]

If you need anymore play testers, feel free to give me a shout.

I've put you on the wait list for a future round of playtesters. I'll send a PM when you're up. Thanks for the offer of help!

Playtesters, there's a new version (0.2.2) posted on the playtest site, including Thursday morning. Work has started on the next scene. Thursday morning is a short scene, about half the size of the diner scene for Wednesday night (Day 1)

Wolfschadowe

[Super]

so, if I've read this right... You're just getting started on the second day, or about 1/7th of the way though the whole thing give or take? Well, I think you've said you've planned a few more, but you're only actually done-done the first day right?

I know it takes a long time to make something this big, and I'm sure it'll be awesome... I'm just a bit bummed since I'll probably need to wait at least another year to see this XD

and the fact it's more or less the only game in this genre being produced aside from chaotic's makes the wait a bit harder to bare... oh well, good luck and great work so far. Eagerly anticipating when I can see it

[Wolfschadowe]

so, if I've read this right... You're just getting started on the second day, or about 1/7th of the way though the whole thing give or take? Well, I think you've said you've planned a few more, but you're only actually done-done the first day right? ---snip---
and the fact it's more or less the only game in this genre being produced aside from chaotic's makes the wait a bit harder to bare...
---snip--- Eagerly anticipating when I can see it

Glad you are looking forward to it Superawesomemans! I would say I'm probably closer to 1/6th of the way through it, from a total work standpoint. Some days are more complex than others, and day 1 about average complexity. Day 3 and 4 will both be less complex. 6 will be a nightmare of complexity, while 5 and 7 will be about the same as 2, which is a little more complex than day 1.

It's not quite as bad as it seems though. Day 1 had a lot of rework as I figured things out, got build processes and tools in place to bootstrap the game, and settled on things. Future scenes (I count scenes rather than days) should go significantly faster than day 1, but it will still take a while. With luck, Act 1 beta should be ready before the end of the year. I just hope it lives up to your expectations.

Wolfschadowe

[sylakone2]

so, if I've read this right... You're just getting started on the second day, or about 1/7th of the way though the whole thing give or take? Well, I think you've said you've planned a few more, but you're only actually done-done the first day right?

I know it takes a long time to make something this big, and I'm sure it'll be awesome... I'm just a bit bummed since I'll probably need to wait at least another year to see this XD

and the fact it's more or less the only game in this genre being produced aside from chaotic's makes the wait a bit harder to bare... oh well, good luck and great work so far. Eagerly anticipating when I can see it

I'm still working on mine but it is going slow.

I have been juggling with the idea of making a another game that is much smaller at first and can be increased over time and put Uni dreams on the back burner for a little while.

I will give everyone more details when I make a decision.

@Wolf if you want to put me down on the play testers list as well I will gladly help out.


Sy

[Wolfschadowe]

I have been juggling with the idea of making a another game that is much smaller at first and can be increased over time and put Uni dreams on the back burner for a little while.

I'm doing the same with BEW...kind of. Act 1 could be considered a stand-alone game, and could stand alone if I decided to stop there. It would end in a bit of a cliffhanger though, if I did that. Each of the 3 Acts could almost be considered a stand-alone game, or maybe sequels, or three books of a trilogy. Same overall story, but natural breaks in the storytelling. I did that to give me ways out while still being able to actually get something done. Plus it helps me personally rationalize the overall size of the game without being overwhelmed by the full 7 days. Additionally, there are several additional love interests that I have "disabled" the storylines for. Disabled meaning, I have stories for them, and they are currently in the main game, but they are not directly romanceable by the player; however, the format is structured so that I could seamlessly add them in an "expansion pack" after the game is finished, and do the work then. The overall game is modular by design so I can add an unlimited amount of content, or cut it back.

@Wolf if you want to put me down on the play testers list as well I will gladly help out.

I have you on the playlist. I'm filling slots first-come first serve in groups of five so I can keep fresh eyes coming in. You will be in group 5.

Wolfschadowe

[ares]

I'm doing the same with BEW...kind of.....

I think you are doing many things right with the development of your game which can, and in my opinion should, be also done by other authors new and old. For those reasons alone I think that even if you don't finish the game, you have already had a positive impact.

Some things I think you did/are doing right are:

1.- Posting a "teaser game". That way you got a taste of what the players thought about your idea. As it turned out, it was really good so this game has already more attention than many other games that have been released in full. But even if it wasn't that good, you would have gathered criticism which you could have used to know whether you were willing to improve or evaluate whether you were just wasting your time.

2.- Keeping an updated page on progress. This also contributes to keep the interest of people in a project that is going to be a while before it's released. Potential players can see that the game is not stalled.

3.- Maintaining contact with the community by answering here in this thread.

4.- Working in your game regularly, almost daily probably. This is of course what people that make a living by telling stories do, no matter whether writers, moviemakers or game developers. Even if you don't make a living out of it, this is also what people with serious hobbies do. Of course you need to rest from time to time, that's why mankind invented weekends. But in general, if you really want to finish something you started, there is some dedication necessary even at times where you might be a little fed up.

5.- Having a very detailed plan of the game early on, especially which all the branching which is also a great thing. Your divsion in Acts which as you yourself have said, it is very convenient. That way, you can work with the goal of finishing each Act, which at all times, is a more reasonable objective than finishing the whole game.

6.- And of course, doing the game you want to do, which has been discussed many times as the best way to ensure that the game will be eventually finished.

More personally and less generally - these cannot be applied to every game - there are several things about your storytelling that I think work very well.

7a.- Having a long term goal - the woman in black - which is not clear from the beginning how you will achieve it, while giving at the same time the opportunity to the player to focus on secondary goals like Emily. I understand that these secondary goals might become the primary ones depending on the player. However, I think it's a plus to have an introductory mystery that cannot be solved right away (as opposed to the "goal" of having a sexual encounter with Emily which is achieved immediately).

7b.- Well balanced use of text and images. In many instances, your game advances quite a bit not by posting new pictures but by using the same picture and telling more stuff in the text frame. This is very good since it allows for more complex characters than what you can make only with pics. The final result is that, assuming that the sexual encounters are the climax of each scene, you are doing a good job in making the player eager to have that sexual encounter. To put it bluntly, when the sex arrives, I think there is a good chance that the player wants to fuck that character. This is opposed to other games where the characters that you get to have sex with, most tipically Chaotic's one, have no personality whatsoever nor life stories.

7c.- Good build of sexual tension. This is related to the previous one. During the actual sexual scene, it seems to me that there is no rush to reach the main acts. Your characters spend quite some time fondling, etc and the transitions to the best stuff are smooth. You can see how the point where the girls end up sucking the guy happens and it feels realistic.

Many previous games have implemented some of those things, a few have most of them, but I think none has implemented them all.

The most important thing I think you are doing wrong is doing the project just by yourself. And not because of the time it will take. People wait for years for Mass Effect or whatever. But I think this genre is evolving towards colaborative efforts like those of tlaero and phreaky or those of the lop team and probably that is the right way to go. More people involved in the creative process, not just beta testers, implies that there will be more ideas. Also when one gets tired, the other may push and you always have someone to discuss about every aspect of the game.

My 2 cents.

[Wolfschadowe]

I think you are doing many things right with the development of your game which can, and in my opinion should, be also done by other authors new and old. For those reasons alone I think that even if you don't finish the game, you have already had a positive impact.

Thanks ares, I appreciate the compliment and the insights, along with the obvious time and thought you put into the post. Some of what you mentioned was by design, and some just happened by accident.

3.- Maintaining contact with the community by answering here in this thread.

I can't help it. This is a great community. Much more mature and, for lack of a better way of putting it, high-class than I expected to find in the genre. I make it a point to try and respond to every post here within 24 hours. If it's worth someones time to make a post, it's worth mine to reply, and there is a lot of great knowledge and insight available here for those of us willing to listen. I value that greatly.

7b.- Well balanced use of text and images. In many instances, your game advances quite a bit not by posting new pictures but by using the same picture and telling more stuff in the text frame.

I actually try to avoid using the exact same picture twice in a row. I always try to change the expression, have the character make a gesture or something to mix it up a bit. I will often use the same picture at similar points along separate branches of a conversation though. That means the same picture on a different play-through may have different text above it. I'm attempting to create the illusion of a living world with untold mini-stories in the background, where applicable, and within time constraints. For example, in a run of four or five similar pictures where the main character just gestures, in the background someone may be getting slapped, or drink their beer, a couple making out, etc..

The most important thing I think you are doing wrong is doing the project just by yourself. And not because of the time it will take. People wait for years for Mass Effect or whatever. But I think this genre is evolving towards colaborative efforts like those of tlaero and phreaky or those of the lop team and probably that is the right way to go. More people involved in the creative process, not just beta testers, implies that there will be more ideas. Also when one gets tired, the other may push and you always have someone to discuss about every aspect of the game.

There are certainly times where I wouldn't mind a little help with some of the writing. I do get valuable input from some of the playtesters who tell me where the story isn't working, or that they don't think a character is working somewhere and it needs tweaking. Sometimes a character isn't liked due to a personality conflict between the character and the tester...which is great! That means the character has a personality and it works. Other times a I get feedback that a character is acting out of character, or is disliked for the wrong reasons and I take that feedback and ask questions to try find the weak areas in the story, explain more about what the character is thinking and why in order to add context to the discussion, and then tweak it until the character is portrayed the way I intend them to be. Similar to the discussions surrounding the feel of the intro early in this thread...

[Aside}
Hey Playtesters who happen to be reading this, bugs are great and all, but more overall story and character feedback would be appreciated.
[/Aside]

..I value those interactions and the observations and discussions we've had around that topic have certainly made the game better, more consistent, and better representative of my vision. I always appreciate those discussions because they make me think about parts of the story that I otherwise wouldn't have considered.

Wolfschadowe

[tlaero]

I actually try to avoid using the exact same picture twice in a row. I always try to change the expression, have the character make a gesture or something to mix it up a bit. I will often use the same picture at similar points along separate branches of a conversation though. That means the same picture on a different play-through may have different text above it. I'm attempting to create the illusion of a living world with untold mini-stories in the background, where applicable, and within time constraints. For example, in a run of four or five similar pictures where the main character just gestures, in the background someone may be getting slapped, or drink their beer, a couple making out, etc..

I love this about your work. It's one of the things that makes it really stand out.

Tlaero

[SYH]

I actually try to avoid using the exact same picture twice in a row. I always try to change the expression, have the character make a gesture or something to mix it up a bit. I will often use the same picture at similar points along separate branches of a conversation though. That means the same picture on a different play-through may have different text above it. I'm attempting to create the illusion of a living world with untold mini-stories in the background, where applicable, and within time constraints. For example, in a run of four or five similar pictures where the main character just gestures, in the background someone may be getting slapped, or drink their beer, a couple making out, etc..

I love this about your work. It's one of the things that makes it really stand out.

Tlaero

I didn't even notice the tweaks until the third or fourth playthrough.