BEW - Ongoing Dev Thread (DAZ Artists Still Wanted)

[karrek]

Hah, no need for an apology. Hell, the middle of next week is sooner than I was expecting when you said you were close.

[Wolfschadowe]

Playtesters:

BEW Version 0.2.4 is available on the Playtest site.

This is the "There will be bugs" edition. The logic is complex and it would take me forever to test everything on my own. Plus, I probably introduced about as many bugs as I fixed in my testing. Thank you all for your help and patience.

This release includes the full d2 office scene for the bar start paths. The club start path will be included in the next test release which will also include the evening junction and related scenes.

While doing my spell check, I noticed that the d2 office scene totaled a 20,500+ words, without the strip club path in the scene yet, so...grab your reading glasses.

More information about test focus is on the playtest site.

For those of you on the waitlist, the next version is 0.3.0 which will on-board the second to last group. I have no eta... I suck at eta's... It always takes longer than I expect.

Wolfschadowe

[karrek]

Yay! Can't wait to try it.

[Comis]

Well, I would be lying if I said it was my first time playing. I played the demo back when you first posted it. Still, back then I was just trying to "win," so I didn't spend too much time exploring different options. I guess the achievements are a mixed bag. It was a little annoying looking for all of them. The last one I got, legitimately, was following Emily into the bathroom when she was receptive and then leaving. It took me a while figure out, since I had already had her stroke me, and I had already followed her when she wasn't receptive. So, in one sense they're annoying. On the other, I wouldn't have explored as much of the game without them, and I wouldn't appreciate how much work you've actually put into it and how many branches you have planned. My sojourn in the code only added to my appreciated. I definitely look forward to the next public release.

For the record, I was, after the edit, able to get 100% complete for the office and bar, with 17 out of 26 achievements for Wednesday. So, assuming the other 9 are for the strip club and diner, you can at least be confident that those achievements all work.

If you don't mind a suggestion, there was one other thing I noticed. It isn't so much a bug as a continuity error. If you are on the Emily only path, after you stroke her leg in the bar, Brad wonders if Faith was fondling herself. That makes perfect sense if the player has enough points with Faith to witness her fondling herself, but it seems a little out of the blue if the player doesn't. Otherwise, all Brad knows is that Faith likes being watched, prefers watching and doesn't mind being a little naughty with Brad since he's safe. Perhaps you can put a check in there. If Brad got the fondling scene, keep the current text. If not, perhaps replace it with something like, "Is it my imagination, or is her breathing a bit ragged?" The only other things I notice were little grammar Nazi nitpicks, like missing commas.

Once again, thank you for the enjoyable demo, and good luck.

[Wolfschadowe]

First of all, thank you for playing! I am very happy that you are enjoying the demo.

...So, in one sense they're annoying. On the other, I wouldn't have explored as much of the game without them, and I wouldn't appreciate how much work you've actually put into it and how many branches you have planned. My sojourn in the code only added to my appreciated. I definitely look forward to the next public release.

I am with you regarding achievements. Personally, on most games I play I shrug them off and mostly ignore them. The initial reason that I included them in BEW is because I received a few requests for them. Since I started using them anyway, I also use them as content flags, simply to let people know that there's more to see. That's the purpose of the ending and activity achievements. Decisions made at the bar have significant impact to what happens later in the game. Also, as the game progresses, different paths get different bits and pieces of the overall story, and different insights to the characters. The achievements help let players know that there is more content there than they probably expect.

An example is the achievement you described. Part of it's purpose is to flag that sometimes following a scene to it's end, like having Emily stroke you, may not be the best option for later in the game. Or, maybe it is, depending on your goals. This is also true of other branches of the bar scene. Earning that achievement in the bathroom means that if you continue that same path in the full Act, you will unlock a completely different scene or set of scenes in day 2+ that wouldn't be available if you let Emily stroke you, and also wouldn't be available if you didn't follow her into the bathroom in the first place. Also, there are other scenes that are no longer available for that playthrough if you do follow Emily into the bathroom.

In the final game, mastering each day will unlock a bonus scene for that day, as well as bonus scenes for mastering the full acts and the full game. It's not much, but its a bit of a reward for the trouble of finding all achievements for those interested. Some will want to earn them legitimately. Others will want to code dive to help find them all, and others will want to outright cheat. Everyone likes to play the game differently, and as long as everyone is having fun, I have no preference which method is used.

For the record, I was, after the edit, able to get 100% complete for the office and bar, with 17 out of 26 achievements for Wednesday. So, assuming the other 9 are for the strip club and diner, you can at least be confident that those achievements all work.

If you get the Intro Mastery, Office Mastery and Bar Mastery achievements, then you have indeed found all the achievements available in the demo. Hopefully they are all working.

If you don't mind a suggestion, there was one other thing I noticed. It isn't so much a bug as a continuity error. If you are on the Emily only path, after you stroke her leg in the bar, Brad wonders if Faith was fondling herself.

I love suggestions like this. I ignore half of them, accept half of them, and the last half makes me think about the game and make related changes, usually after one of the playtesters corrects my math. This is indeed a continuity error, and a great find! I'll add it to the playtest bug list to be fixed in the final version.

Also, I welcome grammar Nazi nitpicks, but the nitpicks should probably go to PM so we don't bore everyone here with them.

Wolfschadowe

[Wolfschadowe]

From the status post:

May 9th, 2014 Wow, when did I move from an update every couple weeks to monthly updates? Maybe I'll step it up a little.

As of this moment, I have 7 renders remaining to finish the missing path for the day 2 office. The transition is fully storyboarded and the corruption path meeting is about 50% storyboarded. Considering that the missing path had about 150 or so renders to do, and the other two branches for the next version have, maybe 40 or 50 total renders between them, this release should be pretty quick. Maybe ready within the next month or so. Maybe. It should be obvious by now that I'm notoriously bad at estimates.

The broken model hasn't been fixed yet so I have three choices. Either create a new model and re-render all the affected scenes, Wait for the model creator to fix the model, or learn how to fix it myself. Since the main point of the game for me is to learn 3D art, I'll probably try to figure out how to fix her myself. I have discovered that the problem is that her bones aren't linked properly. That means when I try to pose her, for example bending a finger, or an elbow, the part pivots around its center instead of the joint. This leads to...mildly disturbing results. Note the fingers below:


Anyway, I'm making good progress on the rendering, and incorporating the playtester comments, bug finds, and suggestions. I think I've lost about half my current playtesters, which is expected considering the duration, but the next group (Group 3) is coming in with the next release. Thank you all for your patience and continued interest! I hope the game will be worth the wait!

[karrek]

Haha, I feel like I haven't been doing my playtesterly duty, but ExLibris beats me to everything!

[Wolfschadowe]

Haha, I feel like I haven't been doing my playtesterly duty, but ExLibris beats me to everything!

Yup. He's quick. Sometimes it seems like he has 20 bugs listed in the tracker just in the time it takes me to hit Submit on the new release announcement and load the bug page. He must have racing stripes on his mouse.

P.S. Thanks ExLibris! It's appreciated, even if I do groan a little when I see the 87 item long list of bugs for the last release that I"m still working through. heh.

Wolfschadowe

[ares]

Wolf, hope you don't mind me asking but have you thought about getting someone to help you with the game?

Most of bug fixing for instance could be easily done by someone else. If you share resources, rendering in principle could also be split.

I ask because it still seems to me that the game you are trying ot make is too much work for one person alone. And that even though your drive so far has been quite remarkable, I believe it is likely to dwindle at some point. I might be wrong, you certainly have given no clue that such a thing will happen. Still getting someone other than you involved might help you not to get bored of your creations.

By the way, even with the hands of the woman all fucked up, the quality of that rendering you posted seems to be much better than those we saw in the demo.

And a question, is the plot with the mysterious woman going to be advanced in Act 1?

[ChadOchocinco]

I stumbled across this today and lost quite a bit of time playing it.

I don't know if I've seen a better executed, more ambitious game than this demo. I can't wait for the complete game. I thought it was a bug when I wasn't showing any accomplishments on the bar scene, only to find out what I had been attempting on hard was a fraction of everything. I was just anticipating day 1 setting up more stuff on day two, and was enjoying the characterization and story line.

[Wolfschadowe]

Wolf, hope you don't mind me asking but have you thought about getting someone to help you with the game?

I don't mind questions at all. The more, the merrier.
I've thought of getting help a time or two, and some of the playtesters have helped out here and there. I'm probably not the easiest person to work with though. That said, If the right person(s) offered to help with a shared vision and could tolerate my workflow, I'd give serious consideration to putting them to work. I get great suggestions and thoughtful observations from my current playtesters which I find incredibly valuable. They've certainly made the game better with their commentary. I'm excited to get fresh eyes and views on the current game as the next round of testers comes on in the next few weeks.

By the way, even with the hands of the woman all fucked up, the quality of that rendering you posted seems to be much better than those we saw in the demo.

Thanks! I like to think I'm getting better, although I know overall the quality of the images will be inconsistent. Unless a render turns out really bad, I won't generally re-render an image, mainly in the interest of time. If I re-rendered every image that I wasn't happy with, I'd never finish. heh. Instead I'll make adjustments for the next image in the series. Fun fact, many of the renders in the demo took anywhere from 20-40 minutes to render, especially bar scene renders. The image above took about a minute and a half to render, although there's not much in it. Currently my average render time is closer to 7 minutes for full scene's. This is mainly due to better understanding of lighting, which I still suck at, and what render settings give me the best balance of quality and speed.

And a question, is the plot with the mysterious woman going to be advanced in Act 1?

She is at the forefront in Act 2 & 3. She does help drive the story forward in Act 1, and we have a few opportunities to learn more about her, and directly interact in some of the strip club branches. On the bar paths, we won't know much about her until the Act 1-2 transition.

I stumbled across this today and lost quite a bit of time playing it.

I don't know if I've seen a better executed, more ambitious game than this demo. I can't wait for the complete game. I thought it was a bug when I wasn't showing any accomplishments on the bar scene, only to find out what I had been attempting on hard was a fraction of everything. I was just anticipating day 1 setting up more stuff on day two, and was enjoying the characterization and story line.

Thank you ChadOchocinco! I am glad you enjoyed the demo. I wonder how many people play through it once without realizing that there's actually several different endings and a lot of content that can't be seen on a single playthrough. One of my goals is to make a game that actually has significant replay value. Just Act 1 alone should be playable a dozen times while still finding significant amounts of new content, and occasionally things found on one path will bring understanding to why characters behaved a certain way on another path. Another goal is to make the story and characterization as engaging as the eroticism, and vice-versa, so it makes me happy to hear that you were enjoying those parts as well.

Since I've already wrote a novel here, I'll give a mini update: All the rendering is done for the Office in day two, and I'm doing a validation pass on the full scene. I found some pretty big bugs that the playtesters missed...well, that's not fair, there's no way they could have realistically caught them unless they were validating against the storyboard or capable of reading my mind, so missed isn't the right word. I've also got the home transition scene between the office and Brad's date for the second evening all storyboarded. It's an interesting one because it will have about 20 - 30 web pages, but only about 5 or 6 images to render. I'm too lazy to look up the actual numbers right now. heh. That's because of all the paths converging and re-branching at that point. I've also got about half of the Day 2 bonus scene storyboarded. For those just joining us, Bonus scenes will be available along with the daily recap if the player has earned the day mastery achievement. They are linear and show a different side to one of the scenes for that day from another characters viewpoint. They day mastery achievement is earned by mastering every scene in that day. Mastering a scene is done by earning all achievements and finding all activities and endings fro the scene.

There's also a scene that I"m working on for the Natalie corruption path that's scheduled for the next release, but I'm fighting a bit of writers block on that.The story points are there, but the scene just isn't quite working yet and I'm blank on how to fix it for the moment. Luckily there's still a lot of writing and validations to do for the missing office branch, so I can backburner that scene and let my subconscious chew on it a bit. If I finish the office and transition scenes and am still blocked on the corruption scene, I'll probably push it to a later release since it won't impact the next scene on the roadmap.

Anyway, thank you all for your time, attention, and support!

Wolfschadowe

[hrmf]

Fun fact, many of the renders in the demo took anywhere from 20-40 minutes to render, especially bar scene renders. The image above took about a minute and a half to render, although there's not much in it. Currently my average render time is closer to 7 minutes for full scene's.

Just out of curiosity, would having faster hardware improve those times much? The community here is probably not huge, but I would guess that you might be able to drum up some donations in a kickstarter sort of way for what seems to be the War and Peace of virtual dating games.

[Wolfschadowe]

Just out of curiosity, would having faster hardware improve those times much?

Not really. I do the rendering on my gaming system, and it's pretty hefty. It's a watercooled 4 core, 8 logical core intel i7 with 16GB Ram, GeForce780 video card, and a SSD. There's faster stuff out there, but the high price for a minimal boost to performance isn't really going to be worth it. Since I use Daz characters, there isn't really a way to queue the images. I have Poser Pro as well, but the Poser queue renderer doesn't render Genesis/Genesis 2 characters properly, so offloading some to the other gaming computer isn't really an option either. It wouldn't make a huge difference anyway. while images are rendering I fix bugs or work on future scene storyboards on my laptop. Besides, I'd feel bad taking money to buy myself a faster gaming computer.

Wolfschadowe

[ChadOchocinco]

Just out of curiosity, would having faster hardware improve those times much?

Not really. I do the rendering on my gaming system, and it's pretty hefty. It's a watercooled 4 core, 8 logical core intel i7 with 16GB Ram, GeForce780 video card, and a SSD. There's faster stuff out there, but the high price for a minimal boost to performance isn't really going to be worth it. Since I use Daz characters, there isn't really a way to queue the images. I have Poser Pro as well, but the Poser queue renderer doesn't render Genesis/Genesis 2 characters properly, so offloading some to the other gaming computer isn't really an option either. It wouldn't make a huge difference anyway. while images are rendering I fix bugs or work on future scene storyboards on my laptop. Besides, I'd feel bad taking money to buy myself a faster gaming computer.

I remember trying my hand at rendering some stuff for a game I was kicking around a couple years back. I tried using LuxRender through Reality for Daz Studio. I liked it because I could export my scenes from Daz, queue them up in Lux, and let it go. It was really resource intensive, but when I finally got a feel for the lighting in Daz, the quality of the pictures was amazing. If my project management skills and time to dedicate to a project were better, I'd love to render a full game like that. Alas...

[Wolfschadowe]

I tried using LuxRender through Reality for Daz Studio. I liked it because I could export my scenes from Daz, queue them up in Lux, and let it go. It was really resource intensive, but when I finally got a feel for the lighting in Daz, the quality of the pictures was amazing.

I played with LuxRender a bit when I was looking for a good way to queue renders. It can produce some great images, but those images take forever and an hour to hit the quality mark with complex scenes. Plus lux renders continuously until you stop it. I find that the 3delight render that Daz uses is a good trade between speed and efficiency. I can hit the same quality render in 10 minutes with 3delight that takes close to an hour with Lux. Granted, if I let lux run overnight it does produce an amazing result, but getting settings right in Daz, I've found that I can get very similar quality results in less render time. Although with Lux, I can carve off a processor for Daz and work in it during renders, unlike with the built-in engine. Really though, if I wanted a true-life render, lux would be the way to go.

I did find a plug-in for Daz that exports renders to a stand-alone 3Delight render engine and works as a queue. I'll use that now if I have a series of similar images, but since most of my renders are now closer to five minutes, I generally don't bother with it.

Wolfschadowe